Why is it that the unions are not going after the large number of small feeder freight pilot groups to become union members? I figure a new revenue stream would be enough to entice them let alone the jump in numbers.
Why is it that the unions are not going after the large number of small feeder freight pilot groups to become union members? I figure a new revenue stream would be enough to entice them let alone the jump in numbers.
Unions would not work in most operations. My airline for example, our main customer hates unions and if our pilot group were to unionize, they would probably just start taking away contracts and runs over a period of time. People would think they would be getting a pay raise, but since most operations bid out their services a huge pay raise might hurt the company overall, plus any pay raise that a pilot might receive will go back out the door in the form of union dues.
One reason is unions only have their interest in mind. There is probably not enough revenue for a union to waste their time were you work. In other words you guys do not make enough money for the union to collect dues for it to be a benefit for the union. The union does not care about you. Guys, I'm a member of a union and if I had my way I would tell them to take a hike. I paid $1400/yr last year in union dues and when I call my union they do not even call me back. Last year I had a accident, called the union 4 times never got a return call. Left messages with my union reps no return calls. It was not until I called the president to complain did someone call me back. BS, unacceptable, their taking my money, they are suppose to represent me, however, that is hard to do when most of them are on the golf course, not flying their trips and getting paid Captains pay to do it. Talk about a scam they have one. Be careful for what you wish for. In 7 years, I have paid union dues, in comes to about $10,000 dollars. I would like to have that money back, because right now with the stock market it's good time to buy that money would have served me better than my union getting it. Instead of me paying for my unions reps golf games I could be paying for my own. Be careful what you wish you for, you just might get it.
One reason is unions only have their interest in mind. There is probably not enough revenue for a union to waste their time were you work. In other words you guys do not make enough money for the union to collect dues for it to be a benefit for the union. The union does not care about you. Guys, I'm a member of a union and if I had my way I would tell them to take a hike. I paid $1400/yr last year in union dues and when I call my union they do not even call me back. Last year I had a accident, called the union 4 times never got a return call. Left messages with my union reps no return calls. It was not until I called the president to complain did someone call me back. BS, unacceptable, their taking my money, they are suppose to represent me, however, that is hard to do when most of them are on the golf course, not flying their trips and getting paid Captains pay to do it. Talk about a scam they have one. Be careful for what you wish for. In 7 years, I have paid union dues, in comes to about $10,000 dollars. I would like to have that money back, because right now with the stock market it's good time to buy that money would have served me better than my union getting it. Instead of me paying for my unions reps golf games I could be paying for my own. Be careful what you wish you for, you just might get it.
River^
What Pilot Union do you belong to?
First off, I'll make a Big assumption. If you are a pilot, you problably work at a regional (or you are a new hire on 1st year pay at a major since by your own words you paid $1400 in dues last year.)
I don't know where you get your facts. Many, if not most, of the regional carriers or "C" carriers at ALPA don't generate enough dues money to cover their own expenses. The "A" and some "B" carriers make up the difference.
In other words most of the C and B carriers get a pretty darn good value for their dues money actually paid.
So my second assumption is: You are not in ALPA are you?
If you were really involved in an aircraft accident and called the accident Hotline you would have received a response within an hour (usually within 30 minutes). I am a member of the ALPA safety Committee. The Accident hotline is manned 24/7 and we return every call.
Many folks on this forum love to bad mouth Unions and ALPA in general. It is True Unions ain't perfect, but the Alternative is unimaginable. Ask any ALPA pilot who has been involved in an accident. Ask them if they would have preferred to not have the ALPA safety/accident committee behind them every step of the way. The Accident/Medical representation alone is worth every penny of dues paid.
I don't know who your Union is, but I am sure it ain't ALPA.(if it is PM me and I'll have your a long talk with your safety Chairman.
Seriously, maybe it is time to re-evaluate your representation. I proudly paid $4700 in dues last year and it was worth every penny!
Unions would not work in most operations. My airline for example, our main customer hates unions and if our pilot group were to unionize, they would probably just start taking away contracts and runs over a period of time.
Is that an AMF airplane(s) in the background? Because if it is, someone has been lying to you. All managers hate unions but in the case of AMF no one really sticks around long enough to get one going. When I was at AMF years ago, all the contracts I worked for happened to be for companies that has unions on property.
One reason is unions only have their interest in mind. There is probably not enough revenue for a union to waste their time were you work. In other words you guys do not make enough money for the union to collect dues for it to be a benefit for the union. The union does not care about you. Guys, I'm a member of a union and if I had my way I would tell them to take a hike. I paid $1400/yr last year in union dues and when I call my union they do not even call me back. Last year I had a accident, called the union 4 times never got a return call. Left messages with my union reps no return calls. It was not until I called the president to complain did someone call me back. BS, unacceptable, their taking my money, they are suppose to represent me, however, that is hard to do when most of them are on the golf course, not flying their trips and getting paid Captains pay to do it. Talk about a scam they have one. Be careful for what you wish for. In 7 years, I have paid union dues, in comes to about $10,000 dollars. I would like to have that money back, because right now with the stock market it's good time to buy that money would have served me better than my union getting it. Instead of me paying for my unions reps golf games I could be paying for my own. Be careful what you wish you for, you just might get it.
I think this was the point. Why won't the "A"'s look out for everyone? While I understand the economics of the situation, the dogs may not need all of the same union benifits, but why isn't the unions working to get some kind of representation to the multitude of pilots that could very well be an "A" player someday?
First off, I'll make a Big assumption. If you are a pilot, you problably work at a regional (or you are a new hire on 1st year pay at a major since by your own words you paid $1400 in dues last year.)
I don't know where you get your facts. Many, if not most, of the regional carriers or "C" carriers at ALPA don't generate enough dues money to cover their own expenses. The "A" and some "B" carriers make up the difference.
In other words most of the C and B carriers get a pretty darn good value for their dues money actually paid.
So my second assumption is: You are not in ALPA are you?
If you were really involved in an aircraft accident and called the accident Hotline you would have received a response within an hour (usually within 30 minutes). I am a member of the ALPA safety Committee. The Accident hotline is manned 24/7 and we return every call.
Many folks on this forum love to bad mouth Unions and ALPA in general. It is True Unions ain't perfect, but the Alternative is unimaginable. Ask any ALPA pilot who has been involved in an accident. Ask them if they would have preferred to not have the ALPA safety/accident committee behind them every step of the way. The Accident/Medical representation alone is worth every penny of dues paid.
I don't know who your Union is, but I am sure it ain't ALPA.(if it is PM me and I'll have your a long talk with your safety Chairman.
Seriously, maybe it is time to re-evaluate your representation. I proudly paid $4700 in dues last year and it was worth every penny!
Your first assumption is incorrect. I work for a major US airline and your second assumption is correct I'm not a member of ALPA but I'am a member of a Union. I think Unions are in general self serving and not servicing their members. Good point is the fact of the age 60 debate. Are large% of ALPA members were against the age 60 change. I can see why they are younger and with the age change and state of the airline industry many of them will never see the left seat. And intially, ALPA was against the age 60, however, once again ALPA like many unions is self serving and not membership serving and went against the larger % of their members wishes and reversed course. Just one of many examples were the majority of the union paying members did not get a vote. Many of my ALPA friends are not happy campers because of this self serving attitude. The other reason I'm not a big union fan is that Unions always support a certain party which I won't mention now, and for that they sometimes to do not see the forest because of the trees.
Your first assumption is incorrect. I work for a major US airline and your second assumption is correct I'm not a member of ALPA but I'am a member of a Union. I think Unions are in general self serving and not servicing their members. Good point is the fact of the age 60 debate. Are large% of ALPA members were against the age 60 change. I can see why they are younger and with the age change and state of the airline industry many of them will never see the left seat. And intially, ALPA was against the age 60, however, once again ALPA like many unions is self serving and not membership serving and went against the larger % of their members wishes and reversed course. Just one of many examples were the majority of the union paying members did not get a vote. Many of my ALPA friends are not happy campers because of this self serving attitude. The other reason I'm not a big union fan is that Unions always support a certain party which I won't mention now, and for that they sometimes to do not see the forest because of the trees.
Do you really think ALPA's changed position on AGE 60 was the reason AGE 60 changed?
The vote went down as 390 to 0 in a stand alone Bill. ALPA has influence on the Hill but they don't have that much, although I wish they did.
As far as Unions picking 1 party over another. It ain't rocket science. One party is much more Labor oreinted than the other. While I often side with more conservatives views on some issues, I understand why Unions tend to support the other. No diferent than BIG OIL corporoations or Insurance supporting the former party.
My first assumption was your employment as a Regional OR a new hire for a Major (1-4 yr FO?)
I still stand by my comment on ALPA's Accident response. Since you aren't a member you unfortuantely don't/didn't get the protection ALPA can offer.
That was unfortunate.
As for Unions being self serving, do you think Corp CEO's aren't self serving?
Who do you trust to look after your long term best interests? A group of well intentioned Pilots or some Corp MBAs getting a 450,000 massage in a Socal resort using US Tax payer bailout money?
Do you really think ALPA's changed position on AGE 60 was the reason AGE 60 changed?
The vote went down as 390 to 0 in a stand alone Bill. ALPA has influence on the Hill but they don't have that much, although I wish they did.
As far as Unions picking 1 party over another. It ain't rocket science. One party is much more Labor oreinted than the other. While I often side with more conservatives views on some issues, I understand why Unions tend to support the other. No diferent than BIG OIL corporoations or Insurance supporting the former party.
My first assumption was your employment as a Regional OR a new hire for a Major (1-4 yr FO?)
I still stand by my comment on ALPA's Accident response. Since you aren't a member you unfortuantely don't/didn't get the protection ALPA can offer.
That was unfortunate.
As for Unions being self serving, do you think Corp CEO's aren't self serving?
Who do you trust to look after your long term best interests? A group of well intentioned Pilots or some Corp MBAs getting a 450,000 massage in a Socal resort using US Tax payer bailout money?
Yes I do think ALPA had a lot to do with AGE 60 changing up until that point the Bill was hung up. I got news for you ALPA is a special interest group just like the rest of them and I'm sure your union dues along with all those guys who will never upgrade and make the big money your making went to pay off a few politicians in Washington. Are you sure ALPA is labor oriented, at least with management at any carrier you know were they stand. They are there to watch out for the shareholders, and the company and it's there job for the bottom line. So what's the union excuse?? What about all the guys who are getting screwed out of the largest raise they will ever get and that's when they go to the left seat. It's one thing when management sells you down the river, but it's something entirely different when your union is accepting dues from it's membership, a majority I may add that did want the age 60 to change, and turn around and take that money and start lobbying congrees for the change. I think's it's interesting that Unions are always wanting retro pay. So is the union going to give all these FO's retro pay? Is the union going to make up the change in these guys lifestyles?? As for trusting CEO's that's to be expected, but it's not expected from your own union. And by the way I'm a Captain at a major US Airline. I happen to upgrade 8 months before the change but many of my ALPA friends are not as lucky.
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