Rhino Driver

Disagree. If we were to continue on this track, eventually, someone will replace your flying because they will be willing to do it for less. Years ago, COMAIR had visions of flying the 737, and someone would then have to supply feed for them. It could be a vicious, never ending cycle.

ficone

I think DAL and UAL are $50/hr for the first year pay. Regardless, the answer is yes. The CA at a regional should not make more than an FO at a major. OK fine, but you said the lowest FO pay of the majors, which is the rate I posted. $50/hr would at least be somewhat reasonable. Were you one of those guys that thought it was it was an injustice that an E9 made more than you as an O2? Just curious.

Quite the opposite. Financially, the military can be very comfortable. In fact, many choose not to leave the military in this day and age due to not wanting to leave the comfort factor, so I really do understand. You may have missed my point, which was that you were earning good pay at sr. O3 or jr. O4 - comparable to that of a similarly-tenured regional CA. Why, in your eyes, is it OK for a mil pilot to stay in due to the comfort factor, but not for a regional CA to stay at their airline? Granted, at the end of the mil career, there are retirement benefits to be gained. But is it because everyone should want the same thing out of their airline career as you do?

You probably would be if we stopped giving jet flying to the regional level. As stated in my earlier post, anything over 70 seats should be mainline and at mainline wages. OK then. We agree. More mainline jobs is good for everyone. So get scope back. The regionals aren't going to give it to you, so you'll need to take it (or at the very least, keep it where it's at). SCOPE is the problem. Not regional CA's who like it where they are, so stop blaming them for perceived injustices.

Wow, and I guess you have. See, this is the problem. We've made it too good at the regional level, so now you can make statements like this as if you know everything there is to know because you've been "flying for the airlines." News flash, you should have been flying routes in and out of small airfields to service the major airlines, not the way the current system is set up. Regionals have no business flying into places like NYC, ATL, ORD, LAX, etc. This has created the airspace nightmare we have today. Regionals should only connect service to smaller hubs. The largest glass B airspace should be reserved for larger airplanes. And I have paid my dues. Trust me, my flying experiences really have been far more challenging in the military than you believe. Never said I have. I've been at this perhaps 6 months less than you. But the difference is, you don't hear me talking about how I've invested all this time and effort, bodily fluids, and combat time as if I had been fighting the good fight for pay, benefits, and QOL my whole life. When did your airline give away scope? Was it when you were working there? Yes, you have paid your dues, and I acknowledged that, but that wasn't the airlines. Post-military, you did what most everyone here has done: took the best pilot job available to you at the time, whether that be in terms of pay, QOL, or whatever was most important to you. If it isn't now what you expected it to be (or thought you were entitled to) when you first began your flying career, well, you always had the option of staying in and waiting for things to turn around. Hats off to you for taking the leap and making an effort to make things better.

Yes it does. The way you want it, and really, it's what we have today, is that a company like COMAIR (just as an example guys, there are many out there) can continue to grow larger and larger. Eventually, as is the case today, they reach a point where they have actually become a national (if not major) sized carrier. They do it for lower wages and end up taking jobs away from mainline carriers. In the end, it has hurt the profession as a whole. It should be a stepping stone, not a career goal as I stated earlier. And there is nothing wrong with a guy who wants to stay as a profession, it should just be capped in wages. Stop saying what I want. Scope = reduced regional capacity, increased mainline capacity = more mainline jobs, at least that's the way the theory goes.

I'll stop quoting you here, because getting scope back seems to be the common reply to all your arguments, and I think we can agree that it's an element of the solution. The regionals did not grow their ops first, and then wait for scope to be relaxed. Though I'm sure regional management wasn't sad when it happened, regional _pilots_ certainly aren't the ones to blame for decreased flying at the majors.

Reduced regional pay, though perhaps a side effect of any reversals in scope, isn't going to make things better and make all your airline dreams come true.

ebl14

Yes exactly. A national union should do things like this. I think if we all stood together and took a big chance we could get some serious work done. I say all US pilots demand the RLA be rewritten more fairly or completely taken away or we all WALK!!!!!!! Are they going to throw 100s of thousands of pilots all in the slammer... and if they do, who will fly all those planes? We could get these things done if we just grew some balls already. Unity is key.

IFly17

Here is my simple .02 on the national list. I am against it for some of the many good reasons stated above. I can also understand why a lot of guys are for the national list.

I don't agree with a list, but what I would love to see is a NATIONAL BASE CONTRACT. It is kinda like the NBA where every player gets the same basic deal and whatever a guy can work out more with his team he can do so. The base language and works rules should be the same for every airline and the pay should start at 19 seats and go up to the 747/A380. We set the base contract on the top 75% of the airlines existing pay scales, work rules, days off, recall rights, scope, equipment, you name it. No work groups are allowed to lowball and go below the contract, but if a work group can negotiate better than the base deal they should be allowed to and encouraged to do so. We should show our individual contracts to the group. Knowing the bar other guys in similar airlines and equipment set allows a stronger negotiating position for the rest especially if they can count on the backing of other work groups. The guys on the top right now might lose at the beginning and the guys at the bottom win but over time it will average out.

We all talk about pilots being a brotherhood. This would be the time to prove it. We know the airlines would try to stick it to all of us and not budge on anything more then the base contract. We need to support every other pilot group when they are trying to get what they can in negotiations be it legacy or small regional. If we fail to support one airline, we have screwed all of us. We need to insure that when a company violates the contract or tries to screw a work group they should be prepared to take on every pilot group because we are all working under the same base deal.

We also need to take a stand on pilots who try to undercut the contract. We need to make it crystal clear to pilots that going to work for a company started to get around some sort of other contract (national pilot contract, or scope) that they will be blacklisted from all airlines working under the contract. You are either one of us or you are not.

None the less it is time we stop pointing fingers and work together to make all of our lives better. We should all be paid and work under rules that treat us with the respect we deserve and the only way that will happen is if all of us stand together.

Romulus

Anyone who thinks military careerists stay in for comfort for try being away from their families for a year why strangers shoot at you and try to blow you up.

Don't compare the military with the airlines or any other safe, comfortable job.