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Old 09-24-2011, 05:05 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Red face Some Oxygen for Fishfreighter Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter View Post
ALPA is the nationwide pilot union. The sooner people realize that, the better off the entire profession will be.
ALPA is NOT the nationwide pilot union. There are several independent pilot organization (UPS, Southwest, American) that are probably a lot more effective. ALPA is loosing traction as the representative of even those they pretend to represent.

G'Luck with that concept.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:03 AM   #32 (permalink)
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It is too late now- but this should have been done the day after deregulation. Pilots would not be in the situation that they are now in if they had developed a national seniority list 25 years ago. ALPA should have thought of this- but then pilots are ALPA. I have heard pilots talking about how they would move up if this airline went out of business or that airline was bought. You could practically see them salivating at the thought of profiting from another pilots misfortune. It is the nature of the beast. Pilots would eat their own young if the demise of their offspring would open up a left seat. So congratulations to all of you- mostly white males who really could not ever imagine yourselves as part of the working class. Management figured you out 25 years ago. They took everything that you held dear- being part of the elite. Management used 9/11 to do what they had wanted to do since deregulation. They waved the magic wand of bankruptcy and made you all middle class in the blink of an eye! Here’s what is so ironic- you did not see it coming because you thought that you were indispensable- until you realized that you were not only dispensable, but that because of seniority, you would be at the bottom of the heap at 50 years old, at best. You were not really like those “other” union members. YOU were more like management- they would not do this to you. How could they? They could and they did and they did it with your blessing. And still you do not learn. It is not over. You think that all of these old guys will retire and clear the way for you. You are wrong. Globalization is coming. You see just how fast the retirement age changed when it proved beneficial for the capitalist system. And low and behold guys who only ten years earlier would have never thought that they would be trying to make it to 65, had no retirement and would work as long as they could pass a “flight” (which is also quite laughable) physical. “The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house”
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CzechAirman View Post
Absolutely NOT in favor of a national seniority list. I'm a member of an independent union. My company is financially sound. My company would be a purchaser of other companies and then they would take selected assets and selected key employees only. My company is in no danger of ever being bought out by another and therefore, I have no worry of having to start over at the bottom of someone else's seniority list.

It seems that the only people in favor of a national seniority list are those working at financially struggling airlines and those that are in danger of being bought out.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
Remember those words in twenty years, because surely your day too will come....The wall street types will find a way to punch a hole in your situation and security.....What you have just posted has been said by many in the past during their pilot group's heyday and almost all have had to eat their words.
Not really. The pilots you are referring to worked for airlines in an airline industry. None of those folks you are referring to worked for multi-billion dollar, worldwide shipping conglomerates.

I agree with Czech Airman. The vast majority of the people who support a "national seniority list" are those working for bankrupt or near-bankrupt airlines.
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:16 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Lab Rat, This year's industry analyst darling is next decade's financial basket case...Only the foolhardy dare say "It can never happen here!".....Case in point, in 1983 American Airlines owed almost nothing and expanded very prosperously (non-stop) until 1991..weathered the early 1990s recession very nicely....The analysts thought them unstoppable....Humm...History is dotted with those stories......Even the Cargo side is not immune, you just need to look farther back....So your hubris is most amusing...Your day will surely come..
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:01 AM   #35 (permalink)
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..........
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Seniority lists are so.... 1920's.

Forget them in their current form, along with any compensation based on so-called seniority. As long as you're basing one's pay to their date-of-hire and date-of-hire alone, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Want to look at "seniority"? Look at how things are done overseas at places like Emirates. Seniority? Yeah, it has its place, but it's not the end-all-be-all, and that seems like the biggest hurdle for US pilots to overcome.

As long as you potentially have a member being paid $30/hour and $90/hour for doing the EXACT same job in the same seat, you'll have MBA's (who have never seen such a thing before anywhere else) be good number crunchers/businessmen and keep you as close to that $30/hour mark as possible.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:24 AM   #37 (permalink)
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A nationwide seniority list will solve nothing. The problem is way too many people competing for way too few jobs and willing to do those jobs for next-to-nothing in pay.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Management used 9/11 to do what they had wanted to do since deregulation. They waved the magic wand of bankruptcy and made you all middle class in the blink of an eye!
One cannot fault management for just doing their jobs. And let us not forget that management could not do that without the cooperation of many pilots willing to hand everything for the sake of flying a jet. They, management, wouldn't have been able to wave the magic wand if the majority of pilots hadn't collectively given them the wand in the first place. Regardless of the fact that pay, benefits, and retirements have been shredded, it sure beats working in a cubicle, right?

Don't fault management. Nowhere in any business course are future accountants taught the pilots are owed six-figure salaries.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:24 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Folks...

Let me apologize for CzechAirman's comments. He is not really a ups pilot, he is a non union replacement pilot (NURP) hired to subvert the IPA union. These "instant management captains" have no credibility on the line and most are looked down upon as pretenders.

JTF

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Old 12-10-2011, 09:46 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 View Post
Seniority lists are so.... 1920's.

Forget them in their current form, along with any compensation based on so-called seniority. As long as you're basing one's pay to their date-of-hire and date-of-hire alone, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Want to look at "seniority"? Look at how things are done overseas at places like Emirates. Seniority? Yeah, it has its place, but it's not the end-all-be-all, and that seems like the biggest hurdle for US pilots to overcome.

As long as you potentially have a member being paid $30/hour and $90/hour for doing the EXACT same job in the same seat, you'll have MBA's (who have never seen such a thing before anywhere else) be good number crunchers/businessmen and keep you as close to that $30/hour mark as possible.
Exactly, one hundred percent correct. The first time I remember the NSL being brought up was at the ALPA BOD during the Republic/NWA merger in the mid eighties. As far as a minimum wage, what a terrible idea. If a union says that a minimum wage for a 737 captain was, lets say 140/hr., I know if I were on the other side of the table I would be trying to negotiate DOWN to that wage. Or if a company was truly having difficulties and wanted to lower the wage to 130 (after opening the books), and the pilots agreed, are they deemed "scabs" or performing a sort of wildcat strike against the Union. Just some random thoughts.
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