northshore973

What did Bethune publicly say back in C97. He had plenty more ready to offer to the pilots. He was even publicly quoted saying he couldn't believe the pilots voted in the first offer. The company would never come to the table without a backup offer.Don't sell out,go back to the negotiating table and set the bar higher.

The company is using scare tactics to get this thing through.They need this to be over with as soon as possible and will come back to the table to make it work. You can't ask for any more leverage.

Regularguy

I have not heard one "scare" tactic from UCH at all. Your statement is pure hyperbole and meaningless.

uaav8r

That's because he/she is on the "good side" of the whipsaw.

northshore973

Regardless of any sort of tactics being used , it would be hard to dispute the fact that areas of the contract need improving so why not send it back and get something better ???

Yak02

Gordon said those things about contract '95. Which was CAL's first contract after the Cluster Frick of '83.

Ask Gordon today what he thinks of this contract. He's on FaceBook.

uaav8r

If I were a CAL pilot it would certainly be easier for me to consider "sending it back" because my family would have much less to lose if the worst case scenario plays out. But, I'm not and we do.

EWR73FO

So we should just capitulate and call it a day? If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

Sunvox

Everything in this thread is a perfect example of internet idiocy. Nothing said here has a single fact to back the comment. What is bad about the contract? Give a person a chance to debate.

Let's take one topic: vacation days.

Guys lost 2 days of vacation.

BUT

the pay rate for vacation changed from 2.8 hours to 3.25 so if you want 85 hours of pay in a month and you have 14 days of vacation then you had 39 hours of credit before and needed 51 hours of trips but now you have 46 hours of credit and need 39 hours of pay. You work 51-46=5 hours or one day less and that happens at least twice if not thrice.

So . . . 2 days less vacation . . . NOT actually same days or one day more depending on seniority.

and that's just one issue so go ahead and hit me with another . . .

uaav8r

Clever cliche indeed. But at the end of the day it doesn't pay the bills. Of course, If I were a B737 captain it would. Unfortunately, 15 years in the right seat at United and here I am, a first officer 7 from the bottom on reserve (756). It's time for an ISL!

LCAL dude

With "No windfalls" being part of any ISL, do you expect your 15 years to bump you from bottom reserve 756 FO (at LUAL) to 756 Captain (at LCAL?) Can you name any other ISL where this kind of movement has happened? What do you expect ISL outcome will be for you?


You got it. LCAL pilots have been working without a contract for 4 years, LUAL for 2, I'm an LCAL pilot so let's take LCAL Retro Pay.

Had LCAL pilots gotten a new contract and a raise back to pre-concessionionary rates when concessionary Contract/POS '02 became amendable on December 31, 2008, they would have made tens of thousands of dollars more over the last 4 years. RetroPay2009.com Instead we are settling for pennies on the dollar owed us, and the company is banking the savings.

Not only is this stealing money out of my pocket, but when this contract becomes amendable on 31 December 2017 there is ZERO motivation for the company to negotiate in good faith, since there is no penalty for dragging it out for years. This TA sets a terrible precedent for on-time negotiations.

Given that LUAL has been working for 2 years under an expired contract and LCAL 4, let's spilit the difference and say the next contract will take 3 years to negotiate.