Sink r8

Pardon me, excuse me: Delta guy passing through.

Congrats on your TA.

Can any of you please confirm 1) when you started negotiations 2) original amendable date 3) contract duration?

I'm under the impression it was five years, for a five-year deal. Is that right?

Thanks,

Sink r8

Pilot7576

1. Summer of 2011...6 mos prior to amendable date.

2. Amendable date Dec 31,2011. 4% payraise from that contract effective Jan 1, 2012.

3. Duration of TA is 5 yrs...TA amendable Sep 1, 2021.


Hope this helps.

notadog

Thanks, but it isn't all that. Pretty much just money, very little QOL improvements.

The current (2006) Agreement was amendable 12/31/2011. Duration was 5 years.

The proposed TA is 5 years. Will actually also be 10, as there is no financial deterrent for the company to settle early.

Good luck!

Sink r8

It does, thank you very much. Using my little fingers, I'm getting 10.75 years amendable date to amendable date. And 5.0 years to negotiate, or 4.5 years past amendable.

Guys are going apoplectic over your rates, and the fact you don't appear to have made many concessions, but failing to account for time elapsed.

I've seen your slide show. Is it fair to say you also made some concessions/trades, but most of your QOL sections are an improvement?

Sink r8

Thank you very much. I am asking, because I'm trying to apply your timeframe to our calendar. Some of our guys think you got a bunch of rates without any trade-offs. Time is a trade-off.

Not in any way dissing your accomplishments, I just don't think everyone is factoring in time, over here.

Thanks again.

Pilot7576

Depends on who you ask. There was some tweaking to Art 13 (scheduling) that mainly benefits domestic flying ( 7.5 max block scheduled, 9.5 duty day from 0000-0500 local sdf time, one less reserve day (15-14) and late arrival pay for reserves held out on a trip). The new trip drop board will be more advantageous to domestic guys that can get rid of a smaller trip..intl guys generally have longer pairings that might be difficult to drop.

Intl guys are complaining about company DH versus commercial tix (ala Fedex) and 24 hr layovers.

Pay came up under most people's expectations, but still leads the industry. Retirement made the biggest gains, we now surpass fedex in that arena. Retro pay went away last contract, but we got the same signing bonus this time that we got last time ($60k capt/$40k fo).

Overall, people are b*tching and moaning more about the lack of scheduling changes and look at the monetary improvements as a given. Given how long we have negotiated, I give the NC kudos for getting ups to open up their wallets.

JMO

notadog

There were trade offs. Time being the biggest. Our union leadership convinced themselves (with the help from our general counsel) that they could sue the FAA and get the "cargo cutout" rescinded. (We lost.) That cost us a couple of years while the company (and their D.C. lobbyists) stuffed money in their pockets, booked record profits, watched fuel costs drop 70%, and ignored negotiations.

Really, this TA is about money. UPS has no problem dumping money on the table. Just don't ask for decent catering or a commercial ticket to work. There are very few real substantial QOL improvements in this deal. It will pass because our union leadership have frightened the members into believing that the NMB won't let us have any more.

The money and retirement is very good, though. It almost makes up for having to work for a bunch of gap-toothed, redneck truck drivers.

whalesurfer

I disagree.

Had we gotten the "same bonus" as last time around we'd have gotten $71,621 for captains and $47,748 for FOs.
According to Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2016 the combined inflation from 2006 - 2016 was 19.4%.
If you want to look at it in reverse order instead, according to the same site, our current - 2016 bonuses of 60K/40K would've been worth $50,264 and $33,509 back in 2006.

Bonuses were not a deciding factor for me but no, they're definitely not "the same" as in 2006.

..and btw 7576 - no one is "*****ing and moaning", people are expressing their views. Just because they're different than yours doesn't mean they're wrong. "*****ing and whining" implies they are. Their views are as as important as yours. Wouldn't you agree?

Sink r8 - I voted yes despite having major reservations about our current TA. Like everybody else I spent a lot of time researching and talking to others. I think dissent is stronger than some people want to believe and it feels like it's gaining momentum.

Having said that, one of our new hires who was supposed to be starting at Delta a day after his ups class was instrumental in my decision. He said it was a very difficult decision and he showed me his spreadsheets where he compared the two companies trying to anticipate his progression, earnings, retirement plans and quality of life for the next 20 years or so. He chose brown but said he won't be sure until the day he retires. I agree.

Whether our TA passes or not (I believe it will) - we will do just fine. I'll respect people's opinion no matter how they voted.

I wish you all the best, hope your contract turns out to be fantastic and I'm glad you're all willing to fight for it!

whalesurfer

I respectfully disagree with you here. I believe the lawsuit was necessary and more about tomorrow than today.

Sadly, one day there will probably be yet another accident out there and this time around it'll be almost impossible for the FAA to justify their previous actions. Their ties to big $$$ are now on record.
FAA -> Future Accident Advocates.

Pilot7576

Whatever....

I just pointed out that the $$ amount was the same this time as it was last time. I think I know the effect of inflation over the past ten years...you don't have to "enlighten" me.