On May 1st, 2012 there were 1665 AA furloughs:
Total Deferring Recall 1015
Furloughed Not Yet Offered Recall 650
Eagle Flow-Thru Pilots 247 (These pilots had no recall rights. [Cited below])
Originally Posted by
Trogdor
I'm curious about total longevity for the AA furloughs, time spent actually flying the line for AA/TWA. I know some of the most junior furloughees had less than a year on property, but obviously others had more. Can anyone offer insight into rough numbers of guys with 1, 2, 3, etc years of service?
Trogdor, all the answers you seek and more are here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...1DIIxmEE#t=150
Okay, but on a more serious note... The most senior involuntary furlough on January 8th, 2013 had less than 8 months of LOS. This is because Eagle pilots sued to have all TWA LCC pilots stripped of their LOS and legally regarded as new hires.
I'd like to know how many AA pilots were on involuntary furlough, but later deferred recall and never completed a cumulative year LOS probationary period? Can anyone answer this?
Originally Posted by
tone
I know this is not the specific intent to discuss here, but wondering if it makes a difference whether a furloughee is actually on the property during the integration or not. What I mean is, could a pilot be put in a different place on the new list just because he/she deferred too long? Or is it just the number that counts? Any speculation on where near-bottom furlough guys may be put?
Whether or not a pilot is on involuntary or voluntary furloughed status at the time of the merger will be a noteworthy issue.
The AA list will not be reordered. All voluntary furloughed and bypassed recall pilots will be regarded as being on property. R57 Relay is correct insinuating that involuntary furloughed pilots not on property at the time of the merger announcement may be regarded as if they would continue to be involuntarily furloughed had all voluntary furloughs/bypass pilots actually returned. In other words, involuntary furloughed and flow-thru pilots may not be granted a status holding position equal to voluntary furloughed/bypass pilots.
It is also worth mentioning that pilots who voluntarily took a furlough (I think APA calls these "Stand in Stead" pilots) may not be the same as pilots who were once involuntarily furloughed and later deferred recall. Cumulative LOS should be a consideration in measuring a pilots cumulative periods of employment before involuntary furlough and after obtaining recall/deferral status.
Originally Posted by
ackattacker
Curious to see some hard numbers as well. From what I've read, by the time the intent to merge was announced last year, most of the AA list had been offered recall. The only guys who hadn't been offered recall had pretty low total length of service (1 year or less). This is my understanding but I haven't seen any real numbers.
I think if it shakes out as I suspect, the fears of many 3rd listers about getting totally shafted in the SLI are mostly unfounded. But we shall see. I think it is fair for guys who legally defer recall to not lose out because of it, or at least only lose an amount proportional to their voluntary deferral.
How does it work, in fact, on the AA contract? Let's say you are position 10,000 on the AA list, and are offered recall. You elect to bypass/defer. I'm assuming your position at 10,000 becomes frozen, and as there's movement on the list they guy who was 10,001 becomes 9,999 etc., passing you. So you do lose something.
I don't believe an AA bypass pilot position would be frozen, but it would remain relatively constant to that of the next pilot senior to him and so on.
Third list pilots need to do a two things if they care about their seniority in this integration:
- Read the arbitrations of LCC/AWA, DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL and study how these arbitrations affected the bottom 15% of each respective list.
- Ask the USAPA Merger Committee to pursue a bargaining stratagem rooted in the precedence of these industry standard arbitrations. Ie. Merger announcement as constructive notice date for seniority snapshot reflective of accurate carrier pre-merger expectations, LOS for AA furloughs, some blend of LOS & Relative Category/Status...
There is no need for the bottom 15% of each AAL list to be creative. This is a simple arbitration for these junior pilot cohorts.
****Citation for off-property flow through pilots having no recall right:March 13, 2008, Arbitrator LaRocco ruled in FLO0106 that Supplement W/Letter 3 status rights did "not contain a right of recall to AE flowthrough
pilots who hold AA seniority numbers, but were not furloughed from AA." (Arbitrator George Nicolau, (2009, October 18) Opinion and Award Grv. FLO0208)