Originally Posted by
thesandbox
The point is not always about the money....yes cost of living increases are a given but QOL does need to be addressed and can do so with out as much added cost. The rest can be made up with a better credit system. Are you asking why some of us left Ryan, World, North American??? Sorry, I didn't leave by choice nor did most of the others and wanted to come somewhere where the flying was similar. Lifestyle and Quality of that lifestyle are two different things. I've sent my previous contract to the contract study committee so these things can be looked at. I just don't buy the we are ACMI, we have to do things this way, mentality. Innovation, creativity, and change happens by thinking outside of the box and pursuing an idea far enough to see if it is feasible or not....like you mentioned that the company will do...we must also do the same.
OK. So if you didn't leave by choice; as did others from World, NAA, Ryan and elsewhere...what does that say about not only their business model, but also your contracts?
I don't think anyone is saying this is a great contract, that's why surveys are done during a contract life to track trends of problems. Because what is said out loud and what is said in a survey can and are, different things at times. But you need trendlines to make sure you are addressing the right things.
As to ACMI vs. ACMI. Let's compare a couple of ACMI customers...Uncle Sam and DHL...vs. lets say...China. Uncle can pretty much lay out a schedule that will be pretty stable with few changes. As he did with World, NAA, Ryan and whomever else. DHL? Pretty much clockwork.
Now lets consider China. They have a schedule. Looks great. Wait...a major shipper had a plant fire and the cargo delivery gets held up 16 hours. Do we move anyway? Only if China says so. Now scheduling gets involved. Wait...new plan...22 hour delay...wait...back to 8. How about the airplane that is coming to MIA and then the customer decides they want it in ORD instead? And the new crew is sitting in MIA in crew rest when they get the word? Do they get airmailed to ORD for more rest, then to operate? Or find another fresh crew? Is there on in ORD that can be used? And what about the cargo in MIA?
And so it goes. Anyone who saw firsthand the changes on a daily and hourly basis would shake their head.
Just as Uncle and DHL "own" the plane...and have pretty solid schedules...the others don't. I'm sure as hell not going to carry the companies water on this, but to say all ACMI is the same is to not understand ACMI. Should Atlas have put performance language into contracts that would cover this? Maybe. And what if the language doesn't cover the type of event?
There is a lot to be gained by having knowledge from other, past lives. However for it to be of any value, it also has to be understood that there is a reason that those carriers are where they are and Atlas is where it is. It also means that you can't just arrive here and say "this is how we did it at Airline X"...if you don't know this airlines history, you are doomed to failure.
One other comment about the management here. A review of their history will show anyone who looks that they aren't from the revolving door of the airline industry. They "get" the business and they "get" how to deal with foreign customers...region by region...which is a lot different than U.S. customers.
They also can and do know how to work with labor. For those here who don't know, it was the pilots union leadership that helped the creditors get through bankruptcy, get rid of dead wood and bring in a strong management team who worked with labor. As proof, go look up how many pilots groups went through bankruptcy without getting their contract gutted...got profit sharing back...and stock options. AND got a major impediment to QOL and job security...(AACS) voluntarily shut down by management?
Only one. Atlas.
Anyone who thinks that they will make progress by hammering on them is
a fool.
There were a couple of guys who didn't believe that. Their carrier was supposed to be the survivor and Atlas was to go away. They went in and began beating and demanding. Their way or the highway.
The result? You see it today in the name of the surviving carrier.
Anyone who thinks that doing it "old school" needs to think long and hard about how it worked for them in their previous life and if they want to find common ground and get the gains we all want...or just have another "former life" uniform hanging in the closet.