mozak

I know this question gets asked from time to time on this forum and others, so I just wanted to use this thread as a collector to (hopefully) get some questions answered, provide some of my $0.02, and get some wisdom from fellow CFIs so that hopefully we can all learn a little bit.


First off, I've seen some very large variance in terms of how CFIs log flights in both their students' and their own logbooks, and although I still have some questions of my own, I think there’s enough guidance out there that I don't think any of us should be that far off base. For instance, some instructors will put a general summary of what was covered in the student's remarks, but only their student's name in the remarks of their own logbook, while others will "clone" what was placed in their student's logbook into their own. Some instructors may even draw a circle with a point in the center to represent turns around a point as well. I’m not going to go out and say any of these things are wrong – but I will say there are regulations that explain at least to an extent what we’re supposed to do. Since most CFIs typically work with student pilots in single engine land airplanes pursuing private or perhaps a sport pilot certificate, I’ll use 61.87(d) as the first example:

(d) Maneuvers and procedures for pre-solo flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating or privileges must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:
(1) Proper flight preparation procedures, including preflight planning and preparation, powerplant operation, and aircraft systems;

What follows is the 15 required maneuvers/procedures for pre-solo flight training which I’m sure we’re all familiar with. Based on the snippet above, I think it’s safe to say that those key words described in 61.87(d)(1) through (15) should be logged verbatim in the remarks as part of the flight training conducted, could we all agree on that? Obviously this is preparing for a worst case scenario – the student crashes and God forbid is killed, the CFI is taken to court, and the logbook analyzed. If those maneuvers are in there word for word, there would hypothetically be no problem, at least from a record standpoint. However let’s say the term “preflight inspection” is placed in the remarks for one of the flights and the term “preflight preparation” (which is part of 61.87(d)(1) as above, and could be argued to mean the same thing) is never used. The relevance of this semantics would probably depend on the cause of the crash, i.e. if the student crashed because of something related to preflight inspection/preparation, then it would be scrutinized more, if not then it probably won’t. Obviously in reality I don’t think that many CFIs consistently do this in practice (including myself, but I’m trying to get better), since we fall into the habit of just writing “touch and go’s” “preflight” “stalls” etc. Obviously none of this really matters unless something bad happens. Cross-country flight training for student pilots is also similar, in that specific maneuvers/procedures are listed and must be “logged” (61**). I guess the question for everyone pertaining to what I’ve said above is, can we agree that ideally we’re supposed to write these maneuvers/procedures in the remarks verbatim (at least in this case for student pilots)?


My next question relates to Part 141 instructors/students. What I discussed above definitely pertains to the individual instructor training a student under Part 61, mainly due to the fact that the student’s and instructor’s logbooks can legally be the sole record of training. But what about an instructor employed at a Part 141 school training a student pilot pursuing private under Part 141? Part 141 schools have additional recordkeeping requirements; does that more or less alleviate the instructor in this regard? Obviously the student and instructor must have their own logbooks and log the flights, but would pre-solo remarks be of less importance due to the school’s recordkeeping? Also, one of the main points of a Part 141 school is to use an approved syllabus – as a result, would it be more proper for an instructor to log the lessons accomplished per that approved syllabus in the student’s logbook instead of just scratching in “slow flight” “stalls” etc? There is no real guidance in Part 141 in this regard as there is in 61, so I’m wondering if there’s overlap or if it is indeed more appropriate to just log the syllabus lessons.


Shifting gears again, I’ll go ahead and touch on the topic of “cloning” what you place in the student’s logbook in your own, vs. not doing so. I’ll start with an example – I knew an instructor that had a student that busted George Bush’s 50 some odd mile TFR around his ranch back in the day. An FAA inspector wanted to interview both of them and go through their logbooks. The instructor fortunately didn’t get in trouble (perhaps there were bigger fish to fry), but he got railed for not having logbook entries that matched his students identically. I’m not even talking about a lack of remarks with just a student’s name in his logbook, I’m talking about maneuvers being listed in a different order, or summarized to greater extent. Using a hypothetical scenario, let’s say a student crashes and kills themselves on a solo. They’re probably carrying their logbook with the appropriate endorsements, so chances are it would burn up. As a result, the instructor’s logbook is the sole surviving record of the training given. If it doesn’t have what was included in the student’s logbook, then most may view it as if the training had never happened. Just things to think about, I’m curious as to others’ opinions on this.

Lastly I’ll just touch on some other common CFI actions that relate to all this. Flight reviews! Here’s 61.56(a):

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.

It’s looking to me like that minimum ground portion of the flight review should be logged and that the remarks for that ground state something like “reviewed current general operation and flight rules of 14 CFR Part 91.” I say this since the ground is considered to be “training” per the regs, not an oral or anything. How many here do this? I know whenever I’ve gotten a flight review no instructor does this, nor have I seen one that does. As for the flight remarks, it was said at an AOPA CFI refresher seminar that instructors should write “flight review completed satisfactory” when an applicant successfully completed the flight review, and NOT to itemize the maneuvers performed, since this can be more easily picked apart in court if the worst happens. On a similar note, let’s look at 61.31(e ):

(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane, unless the person has—
(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and
(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a complex airplane.

We probably all know about the flight and endorsement that we need to give for a complex checkout, and any good flight instructor will go over the systems with reference to the POH, but how many here log that ground? I ask because I haven’t seen any that do, and I’ve operated with freelancers, in different schools, and even in different states! But the regs seem pretty clear on what should be done. What do you think?

This has turned out to be quite a bit lengthier than I expected, so kudos to those who actually read all of this! I hope we can all learn something from this, or perhaps I’m just the slow kid in the group .