Originally Posted by
TheBaron Deux
Originally Posted by
GetRealDude
TBD
I've detailed plenty on "things I don't like about the TA" thread.
Read the TA from cover to cover first.
Originally Posted by
GetRealDude
A summary of the CONCESSIONARY TA NONSENSE
Everyone needs to read this deal cover to cover to see just how anemic and concessionary it truly is for the pilots. Productivity and financial gains for the company are many.
Please educate yourself. If this is passed, we'll have to live with it for the next 6-10years. That's a long time to get beat up (QOL) with no recourse.
BIG ISSUES:
...
- loss of first class DH when lie flat business class is available
...
This list falls short of the MANY areas of concern and manipulation found in this deal. But it hits a lot of important areas to consider (QOL) and total compensation.
Is this the post you were referencing? Anything in
red is flat out wrong. Maybe you need to reread the contract from front to back. Most of your other points aren't concessions, they are just ares where some, too little, or no improvements were made. No increase to the A fund is not a concession; A 26% pay increase is certainly not a concession; A 2% bump in the B fund is not a concession; Signing bonus...that I will say is a concession.
That is why I asked you to make your argument for a "no" vote using some valid contract points and not just your misunderstanding of some contract points.
Anything in red is wrong? OK, let me look at the first one ... "pathetic B Plan bumps". If you're going to argue "pathetic", I guess you'll argue just about anything. You may disagree, may even think the bumps are too generous, but you're not going to convince many people GetRealDude was wrong in his judgment of the B Plan. It makes it easier for me to discredit the remainder of your critique. BUT, since we're here anyway, let me point out an actual error that you
did miss.
- loss of first class DH when lie flat business class is available
That point is not entirely accurate, as it contains the word "business."
I'm not sure where the error originated, or how it has been perpetuated, but it's been repeated often here.
Originally Posted by
skypine27
*loss of first class DH when lie flat business class is available
Originally Posted by
Raptor
This TA just eliminated first class international DHs. It says that if business class has lie flat seats, then that is now sufficient for a higher class of service.
The thing is, the TA language tells a different story, especially if you read it with an eye to what The Company can do to exploit the language and how they can use it to use us. Here's the actual TA language.
8. DeadheadingA. Deadheading by Air
5. Class of Service for Commercial Deadhead Travel
c. Higher Class of Service
Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of
service requirements set forth in this Section.
Now, what that means is that any time you rate a higher class of service, The Company can satisfy that requirement with a "Flat Bed Seat".
Did you see anywhere that the seat has to be in Business Class?
Check these out:
The Future of Lie Flat Economy Seating
Air New Zealand currently offers a SkyCouch option (essentially turning three economy-class seats into a couch).
Airline launches economy 'lie flat' bed... by offering passengers three seats for half the price of a business flight
Air Astana’s new economy sleeper class combines three seats so passengers can rest in a lie-flat position
.