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Old 10-14-2018, 09:30 AM
  #21  
FXLAX
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
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Default Retirement Plan Negotiations?

Originally Posted by kwri10s View Post
Can a proposal be made that would only allow members to vote on any proposed change to the retirement plan, outside of normal section 6 negotiations, if the member has not already maximized their retirement under the current plan?



In other words if you already have your 25 YOS and max cap of $260, then you cannot vote on any change outside normal section 6. It seems we have pilots that cannot in any way be negatively affected by any change, able to vote on a process that might have significant adverse affect on those that do not already have their 25 YOS and $260 cap.



In effect we are allowing a "B scale" retirement vote if those that are already "whole" can vote to make others less than "whole".

They could negotiate it so that those with their high five are exempt from the VBP. But I don’t think they can prevent a member in good standing from voting.

Originally Posted by Thrust Hold View Post
From what I've been told this is being done outside of Section 6, so that we aren't subject to any Status Quo type Arbitration should there be any. Pensions are no longer Status Quo and could compromise our position.



Don't shoot the messenger. Just what I was told when I inquired.

Unless there is some arbitration clause in the contract (like Alaska), there is no arbitration during section six negotiations unless both parties agree to it. And that is usually the last step before being released to a cooling off period. Which typically means that the MEC declines because there is more leverage during a cooling off period than during arbitration.

Originally Posted by NewOldGuy View Post
I agree. Not sure why we’re even negotiating? This thing is supposed to be so “wonderful” for us both. We’re outside of section six. I don’t think we should be pursuing it at all, but if we are it shouldn’t be “negotiated”. We should be submitting a “shoot for the moon proposal” and the company can either take it or leave it! Then hopefully our union would still allow us to have an input at some point.
To be clear, I don’t believe we should be pursuing this at all, but if we are, there should be ZERO negotiating required.


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As opposed to section six negotiations, the parties are not obligated to negotiate. So if either side shoots for the moon, the other side can simply walk away and never look back. Typically, negotiating outside section six (LOAs, and MOUs), its done because each party have mutual interests that don’t require federal law that forces them to negotiate in good faith. So if you were to shoot for the moon during these negotiations, you might as well just save your energy because it wouldn’t go anywhere.
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