Old 03-08-2021, 03:59 PM
  #22  
EMAW
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 459
Default

Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
No, it is not the same.

If an aircraft departs, climbs to a cruise altitude of FL240, and crosses KOZAR as part of a filed or cleared arrival, the KLYNK3, The first speed restriction applicable on that arrival is found at EEEZI.

If ATC desires a different speed, ATC will need to assign the speed. If the pilot is in doubt of the clearance, he is required to query ATC. This is a regulatory requirement.

A wise pilot will enquire.

"I asked my ATC buddies" does not cut it. What is applicable is the clearance. If cleared for the arrival, any speed restrictions on that arrival will apply, unless an amended clearance is received. An aircraft which never climbed above FL240, and thus is not descending to that altitude, will never be reaching a mach cruise number. If the aircraft is cruising at 300 knots, there is no procedural note for the KLYNK3 arrival which dictates slowing from 300 knots to 280 knots, until EEEZI.

An astute pilot may note that an arrival at 300 knots will potentially place one faster than traffic descending into the arrival, and may query ATC to ask about speed, if a speed has not been assigned. One should NOT assume ATC intent, or guess at the speed. One should not arbitrarily reduce speed, because the procedure does not call for it. If ATC has not assigned a speed reduction prior to that established by the STAR, then it's entirely possible that ATC is using the speed difference for spacing. What "ATC buddies" think does not trump what is printed on the arrival, nor a clearance issued by the controller working that aircraft and that arrival. One must fly the arrival as published, and fly the clearance as given, or as amended.

The KLYNK3 arrival does not provide a speed reduction or speed restriction until EEEZI, except that aircraft descending from an altitude at which a mach number is in use, will maintain 280 as that airspeed is reached in the descent. There is no procedural note requiring or directing arriving aircraft to reduce airspeed speed to 280 knots until arrival at EEEZI.

It should be noted that an aircraft that transitions from mach to an indicated airspeed is not making an airspeed reduction. The procedural requirement is to maintain 280 knots when that speed is reached; an aircraft descending on a mach number is actually increasing airspeed until 280 knots is achieved. Think about it.

exactly. Which is why I said ask.

however, you said once assigned the arrival any speeds on the arrival apply. How does a note that says descend in MACH until intercepting 280 not apply to the whole arrival meaning at KOZAR. Show me something from the FAA, or a legal interpretation and I will adjust my way of thinking. If you have a reference that gives this specific example, post it. I’d be glad to adjust what I do. But until then, I’ll take “I asked my buddy at ATC what they expect” over someone I’ve never met on a forum. I was just giving some different
points of view. Never trying to pass off what I say as gospel and I’ve said multiple times now if in doubt, query.

I have been unable to find this specific example in any example.

This is nothing but a discussion. Curious as to the right answer myself.
EMAW is offline