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Old 11-20-2022, 06:00 AM
  #44  
MaxQ
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
You, as many others, confuse left leaning ideas or social democracy with socialism. Bernie's own definition of "democratic socialist" is not socialism.

I can't think of a single active politician who is an actual socialist, apart from some fringe lunatics. But in the USA it's customary to throw the "socialist" title on anyone who leans more to the left, without having a clue what it means.
It seems to me that many confuse social programs with socialism. Social programs do not equate to socialism. It is, however, an easy line for anyone opposed to social program x, y,or z to toss out that it is "socialism!" or "Communism" with all the alarm one can muster. Most political leaders accused of socialism are advocates of this or that public service or program. As you say, calling them socialists is absurd.

Even Hayek in his book "Road to Serfdom" advocated for robust social programs. His main argument in the book was against a centrally planned economy.
Every successful functioning society that comes to my mind is a mixture of free market capitalism, regulated capitalism, and public funded collective projects/programs.

We have found that military defense, policing, fire fighting, and education of the young, when done collectively, works better than having it done by private entities. These are just a few examples of the collective embedded in a non-socialist society.

We have found that regulation of utilities works better than an open free market brawl. (the electric grid is possibly the most complex "machine" devised by Man. We have in just over a century built a civilization that can't function without it. For it to work it requires huge levels of coordination/cooperation between entities while also having an umpire that balances the needs of society, fairness to the users, and requirements of the producers. For now we have this regulated private enterprise system, for just one example)

Some things society doesn't absolutely need to function, so we let the free market run its course. Make and market Cabbage Patch Dolls to your hearts content. We will make sure you don't put a lethal poison on its clothes or pour arsenic into the river in the manufacturing process, but otherwise the venture is left to the market.

As you said, there are no socialists in the halls of power. There ARE people who see the limitations and failures of unrestricted free market capitalism and attempt to find ways to mitigate the flaws inherent in a market economy. That just makes them practical, reality oriented people. Not some sort of neo-Marxist or Leninist.

I will leave with the only note I jotted down from the book "The Great Transformation" by Karl Polanyi.
"Fascism, like socialism, was rooted in a market society that refused to function."
It was a fair observation, and can be today construed as a warning.
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