Originally Posted by
QRH Bingo
If I have a prior type rating (full PIC type, no limitations) issued on a commercial certificate and then obtain an ATP, does the circle to land maneuver already demonstrated from the previous type carry over onto the ATP? (ATP was issued on the basis of a 121 AQP so circle to land maneuver was not completed). I know type ratings “elevate” to the ATP even if they were issued before the ATP because they are done to ATP standards. Only thing I can find in the ACS is how to remove the limitation and what maneuvers are required to be accomplished. But it seems to be worded in a manner that it is done after the fact and not necessarily from a previous type rating.
The short answer is yes: your type rating issued at a lower level of certification carries forward to your new level of pilot certificate. If you hold a type rating without a circling limitation on a commercial level pilot certificate, when you obtain your ATP, the type rating carries to the ATP certificate and does not lose the circling limitation.
This is found in various locations. An example is FAA Order 8900.2C, General Aviation Airman Designee Handbook, section 11, paragraph 76, which states that there is one level of standard for all type ratings (regardless of grade of pilot certificate held), and that they carry forward from a superceded level of certification, to the new level of certification,
without further testing.
(The Dynamic Regulatory System --DRS--is the current source, but is at times fickle and tempermental, such as this moment when typing, for example, due to system maintenance and government bull****:
https://drs.faa.gov/browse)
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...er_8900.2C.pdf
An aircraft type rating may be added to a private, commercial pilot, or ATP certificate. However, type rating practical tests are conducted to a single standard for all certificate levels. Regardless of the grade of certificate held, an applicant must meet the standards for a type rating in the appropriate ATP and aircraft type rating PTS. All type ratings within category and class held on a superseded certificate or issued under the military competence provisions are carried forward to the new certificate level without further testing.
Your type rating should not have been altered when you obtained your ATP certification, as this is contrary to policy. Regardless of whether you were required to demonstrate circling as part of your ATP training (you should have been), it does not impact the fact that you already demonstrated it with your type rating and the rating was issued without a circling limitation; it is required to be carried forward as you upgrade from the commercial pilot level of certification, to ATP. In other words, the FAA's policy is to keep the circling limitation with the type rating when you get your ATP: you've already demonstrated it at the ATP level, and are NOT required to demonstrate it again.
You said you called Oklahoma City and spoke to a designated pilot examiner? Why, if you are calling the FAA, are you assigned a DPE, instead of an inspector? Regardless, the DPE's own handbook specifically states that the type rating carries forward without need of further testing, so whomever you spoke to was incorrect. If you are being issued the rating initially, then any restrictions applicable will be added at that time (eg, circling, a seaplane restricted to land or sea as demonstrated during the practical test, VFR-only as applicable, etc). Once you have removed that limitation (such as during the initial practical test for the type rating), there is no provision to put that restriction on your rating, when issuing a different level of pilot certification.
This can be confusing; there are different testing requirements in an airplane at each level of pilot certification, and different maneuvers, etc...but that's true of other aircraft ratings, but not a type rating. The type rating has one standard: a pilot must fly to ATP standards for a type rating as a private, commercial, or ATP pilot. When your type rating migrated to your ATP certificate, whomever issued it with a circling restriction did so in error, and you should see about getting it corrected. Is this recent, or an old error? If the error was put on your paperwork, when submitted, by the training organization that did your ATP course, then you should go to them to get it corrected, as the first step is to seek correction through the issuing person, organization, or unit.
In the DRS linked above, you can access FAA Order 8900.1, the FSIMS (Flight Standards Information Management System). Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 19, Paragraph 5-728 will give the same direction as the excerpt from 8900.2C quoted above, verbatim. For clarity, it's copied here again, complete, from the FSIMS, as found on DRS (emphasis and italics, mine):
https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExte...6005EBEA9.0001
5-728 GENERAL. An aircraft type rating may be added to a Private Pilot, Commercial Pilot,
or ATP Certificate. However, type rating practical tests are conducted to a single standard for all
certificate levels. Regardless of the grade of certificate held, an applicant must meet the
standards for a type rating in the ATP and/or type rating practical test standards (PTS) or Airmen
Certification Standards (ACS) as appropriate. All type ratings within category and class held on
a superseded certificate are carried forward to the new certificate level without further testing.
For military pilots applying under the provisions of part 61, § 61.73, a type rating may be
upgraded to the ATP Certificate level. Type ratings limited to visual flight rules (VFR) also may
be upgraded to the ATP Certificate level without further testing. However, there is no provision
for taking an initial ATP practical test in an aircraft that would require a VFR limitation. A type
rating for a single-place (single-pilot station) aircraft may not be upgraded to the ATP Certificate
level.