Originally Posted by
YugoDriver
An FO check ride is to ATP standards therefore it is not their ability to fly the plane that prevents them from having an ATP it is only flight time. If you have a good attitude and are safety minded you will be a good FO.
Not true. There are 2 standards in reality. No FAA knowledge test for FO's, ATP knowledge test for CA's. An FO is allowed greater latitude in the judging of whether a "TASK is incomplete, or the outcome uncertain" than a CA. An FO is allowed less detailed systems knowledge during their oral exam. No taxing on the FO Practical. No low-vis T/O for the FO ride either.
Do I have objective proof of this higher standard? No. But ask your CA if they felt their initial oral and type ride were any more difficult than their initial FO oral and ride. Even @ airlines that type the FO, the standard is more stringent for the CA than the FO. If training departments held new FO's to the same standard as seasoned CA's, few FO's would ever make it to the line. You've got to give folks an opportunity to learn the plane - that's just reality.
CA's are held to a higher standard, as they should be. If all airlines went to an 'up or out' policy, there are many 'career FOs' who would be out of a job simply b/c they are not capable of meeting the higher standard applied to CAs by DE's.
Originally Posted by
YugoDriver
Attitude and professionalism is what needs to change to improve safety not an ATP.
I can have a great attitude and the best professionalism, but @ 400 TT, there is no way I am a safer pilot than a 10,000 TT CA with a terrible attitude and no professionalism. There is something to be said for commanding a plane and experiencing what happens when things don’t go according to plan that cannot be replaced with attitude and professionalism – and that’s why ‘mainline carriers’ hire pilots who almost exclusively have command experience as a Captain, Aircraft Commander, or for single pilot military aircraft, a flight lead (not to mention the non-flying leadership required of military aviators).
If you want to be an Airline Transport Pilot, you should have to be licensed as such by the regulatory authority (the FAA, in this case). Will an ATP fix everything? No. But it ensures that at one point each and every professional pilot has at least an acceptable level of experience in a variety of flight conditions (x-country, night, instrument, and PIC – or lots of SIC) that will help to ensure that you’ve likely personally experienced many of the conditions and leadership opportunities you will encounter at an airline BEFORE you have paying passengers or high value cargo behind you. To argue that pilots without ATP’s but great attitudes and exemplary professionalism are just as safe as a 100% ATP certified pilot group of any attitude and professionalism is naïve at best.