Aren't we all?

Yes which is always tough when you have 4600+ people, especially when they're all type-A people who fiercely pride themselves on the independence of their thoughts.

I didn't say ALPA doesn't want us talking about what we would like to see in the next contract, that's silly. I'm just saying that this particular venue isn't doing us any good in that regard at best, and depending on the evolution of things it could actually hurt us. Chess not checkers. This is fairly common union knowledge/strategy across the industry, certainly not the flatulence of a negotiator over APC.

Uhh Ouch? Great drive-by but the scenarios are structurally different. We the membership had nothing to do with the negotiation of the HKG LOA, only the ratification process. Neither our MEC/MC, nor our NC asked for our input before sending that thing out for ratification. The failure there was with the officials we put in charge, apathy on the part of some, and a general lack of understanding of how the ratification process works and what to expect at roadshows, in post-endorsement mailings, etc.

Those lessons should absolutely be remembered by all, but in this situation we have different leadership and they are openly requesting our input for contract desires and outlining where they want that input sent. Besides even the most the jaded of the POH, should realize by now that none of the squawking done here over age-60 or the FDA led to any of that stuff being taken up as official council or NC direction and isn't that the desired point of this thread? There are processes to get our voices officially heard by our leadership on topics like this. Think about it, overall we've seen more reactions to comments on these boards from management than we have from our union. It's not even close and it should be instructive.

As long as they're widely read/distributed venues like APC can be very effective ways of disseminating information on things like the pros/cons of ratifying a particular deal, or increasing membership awareness of some of the more esoteric subjects out there to get people to get their reps involved. The recent thread about the next phase of Open Skies is a good example. As long as you've got your ducks in a row politically, boards like this can be a great way to drum up support for candidates for office and hammer the opposition because there are rules pertaining to what can and cannot be said on ALPA forum/email that can be very easily skirted here. There are tons of great things and uses for APC, which I obviously believe by my number of posts, I just don't think this is one of them.