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Air Wisconsin still a good choice?

Old 06-06-2019, 03:39 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by RabidW0mbat View Post
Wow, somebody is having a case of the Monday’s. Completion standards were clearly laid out for all students...sounds like someone struggled and wants to shift blame.
Don’t pee in your Cheerios folks...leaves a bad taste.
Never failed a thing... because we weren't given a second chance at anything years ago. Weren't you one if my students??? I've got a little more knowledge of the back of house dysfunction than the average moron.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:08 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by AZwiz View Post
Never failed a thing... because we weren't given a second chance at anything years ago. Weren't you one if my students??? I've got a little more knowledge of the back of house dysfunction than the average moron.
I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I had my flows down cold. ...somewhere near the end of IOE. Had a kneeboard for reference, used it the whole time I was there. CPT was low stress learning, I got through sims in footprint, didn’t buy myself any “extra” time in IOE.
What does this mean to you? Probably nothing, since several others have done a better job than I can articulating the obvious. If I had to make a wild guess, I’d think your entire skill set might be under the shadow of your attitude.
$0.02
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Old 06-07-2019, 04:29 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by BFMthisA10 View Post
I’m going to let you in on a little secret. I had my flows down cold. ...somewhere near the end of IOE. Had a kneeboard for reference, used it the whole time I was there. CPT was low stress learning, I got through sims in footprint, didn’t buy myself any “extra” time in IOE.
What does this mean to you? Probably nothing, since several others have done a better job than I can articulating the obvious. If I had to make a wild guess, I’d think your entire skill set might be under the shadow of your attitude.
$0.02
Oh my, your pee pee is so big...mine so small. LOL...you used a knee board? Cute.
This place is a on the level of a flickering dumpster fire.
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:23 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Turnamdburn200 View Post
Let’s be nice to each other now, in all fairness giving someone a piece of paper with completion standards and sending them home to figure it out is a recipe for disaster. There is zero effective study material for someone not already familiar with the plane. No videos, they break up classes so classmates from one class to go cpt with someone from another class. Makes it very hard to study when every 3-4 days for 2-3 months they call and give you a new partner only to phone study with them for a day or 2 before switching to someone else. The whole learning process is like learning from a fire hose but the flow of knowledge is off at the hydrant. No Information is given in how to do things right until you get to cpt then it’s an overload. If your not someone who can read the Fcm, and visualize what it’s saying to do for the flows and checklist it’s very hard to learn. Most people are visual learners and with zero demos or videos it makes it hard for them to process everything through self study alone. There is a reason 2/3 of people fail at first attempt through ctp
If you can't follow step by step written directions to learn a flow then how are you going to follow step by step directions when running a QRH? There are no pictures or videos in there either.

Visual learner or not, the only way to effectively learn flows is to sit down in front of a cockpit mock up with the book in your lap and go button by button through each flow, over and over until you can do them efficiently with 100% accuracy. It's not fun, but it's necessary. Videos are good for some things but unfortunately not for learning flows.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:21 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Turnamdburn200 View Post
Let’s be nice to each other now, in all fairness giving someone a piece of paper with completion standards and sending them home to figure it out is a recipe for disaster. There is zero effective study material for someone not already familiar with the plane. No videos, they break up classes so classmates from one class to go cpt with someone from another class. Makes it very hard to study when every 3-4 days for 2-3 months they call and give you a new partner only to phone study with them for a day or 2 before switching to someone else. The whole learning process is like learning from a fire hose but the flow of knowledge is off at the hydrant. No Information is given in how to do things right until you get to cpt then it’s an overload. If your not someone who can read the Fcm, and visualize what it’s saying to do for the flows and checklist it’s very hard to learn. Most people are visual learners and with zero demos or videos it makes it hard for them to process everything through self study alone. There is a reason 2/3 of people fail at first attempt through ctp
How do you explain thousands of pilots in the past completing the training program within the footprint?
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Old 06-07-2019, 07:05 AM
  #36  
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I worked at Air Wisconsin about a decade ago, so its likely what I'll say could be very wrong or maybe its still relevant. The training department, led by PP, was NOT a cooperate graduate program. It was difficult, but not so much that it was impossible. Back in 2005 when I was hired 25% failed out... that said those that did were for the most either a bit weak or unprepared. There were one or 2 that you scratched your head because they must have just had a bad day.

Compare that to my current airline, which spoon feeds it to you and you have to be a relative dumba$$ to fail, and even if you do they will still allocate just about as much time to you as you need. With all that said, as far as I know out of the ~100+ pilots to come to my airline from AWAC, I don't think anyone has ever failed initial. As such AWAC has a good reputation for producing good pilots.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:15 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by RJ4LIFE View Post
If you can't follow step by step written directions to learn a flow then how are you going to follow step by step directions when running a QRH? There are no pictures or videos in there either.

Visual learner or not, the only way to effectively learn flows is to sit down in front of a cockpit mock up with the book in your lap and go button by button through each flow, over and over until you can do them efficiently with 100% accuracy. It's not fun, but it's necessary. Videos are good for some things but unfortunately not for learning flows.
I hate to say it but having a demonstration to start the learning process would help a lot. Hence why in the military when you are learning something basic everyone does it over and over as a group. Saying the same thing, becoming the robot that’s needed. Air Wisconsin has zero training on flows or checklist until you get to cpt. At least I didn’t. At the very end I was shown a bunch of videos that used to be in the study material for cpt that would of made it 1000x easier. To be like, oh, I hit this button and see this, vs rote memorizing it without any idea as to what’s happening. Someone who has never done flows or first flight style test will struggle without a visual reference. Also the qrh goes step by step and you read it. The whole idea of CPT is do things from memory, it’s like comparing apples to cows. Not even close.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:25 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by StrykerB21 View Post
How do you explain thousands of pilots in the past completing the training program within the footprint?
You mean the 1000s before the implantation of the current cpt? The guys that received videos as study material? The ones who didn’t have months off between systems and cpt? The ones who used crj200 sim for the CTP which familiarized them with the plane. The ones who knew their study partners? The ones who received demos? These are all things that I know existed in the very recent past.

Also, I passed on my first time I’m just pointing out the lack of any training that occurs. After seeing how other airlines train this it’s no wonder air Wisconsin has so many failures at cpt compared to other airlines. It’s because air wisconsin doesn't provide any training. Mine as well not even have indoc or systems. Just send new hires home with the iPad and say come back in 6 months, hopefully you have it all memorized.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:47 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Turnamdburn200 View Post
You mean the 1000s before the implantation of the current cpt? The guys that received videos as study material? The ones who didn’t have months off between systems and cpt? The ones who used crj200 sim for the CTP which familiarized them with the plane. The ones who knew their study partners? The ones who received demos? These are all things that I know existed in the very recent past.

Also, I passed on my first time I’m just pointing out the lack of any training that occurs. After seeing how other airlines train this it’s no wonder air Wisconsin has so many failures at cpt compared to other airlines. It’s because air wisconsin doesn't provide any training. Mine as well not even have indoc or systems. Just send new hires home with the iPad and say come back in 6 months, hopefully you have it all memorized.
Excuses and whining will only get people so far in life. Aside from the introduction of CTP which became an FAA requirement not a lot has changed in our training program. Lots of time off between systems and CPT? More time to study and practice flows. There have been a frightening number of people coming through thinking the information will simply be spoon fed like other regionals do. It doesn't work that way here. Do the work.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by StrykerB21 View Post
Excuses and whining will only get people so far in life. Aside from the introduction of CTP which became an FAA requirement not a lot has changed in our training program. Lots of time off between systems and CPT? More time to study and practice flows. There have been a frightening number of people coming through thinking the information will simply be spoon fed like other regionals do. It doesn't work that way here. Do the work.
This must be someone in charge of training. It summarizes the attitude of management and some instructors. “It’s all bad students, has nothing to do with the system” hate to break it to you, but with just about everyone needing additional training at either the sim level or cpt level it might be the instructors or training program. The fact that out of the 15 or so recent hires that I talked to I can only think of 1 who made it through first try on everything and even he went to Germany for 5 extra “free” sims to get a feel for the plane. You would think that with all the extra time and money spent on training all these bad hires the company would look at the training program and make some changes. If other companies can train to the same ATP standards with a much higher pass rate in shorter times something is wrong with the program and not the students.
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