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Old 06-11-2019, 03:25 PM   #61  
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Originally Posted by Av8tor8710 View Post
No longer at the company because they resigned, were terminated, chose to leave because they got tired of waiting....do you know?

Again, I’m not about spoon feeding but why wouldn’t they at least attempt to set up applicants for success? I’m sure they do but not even a heads up “oh hey btw syllabus changed, may want to take a look at the new one”.
No idea why they left, but it’s only been about 10 that have left the rest are just stuck in training. Don’t expect any communication from the company when you are home waiting, or before you go home after systems. “They will call when ready” and “be ready at a moments notice” so don’t plan to use your travel benefits to go far. You will have zero idea on estimated wait or where you are on the list.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:23 AM   #62  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon View Post
The syllabus, available on day one of new hire training, says to have the knowledge down before you show up. Ground/systems instructors should be reminding people about this too. You can memorize flows and callouts without guidance. If you’re learning all your flows and callouts during CPT you’ve already done it wrong. It’s meant more as a guided study to refine the material.
Available on Day 1? Yes ... have to to read, understand, and digest while going through Indoc and systems? Hardly. I understand the premise of this style of learning which is mostly driven by cost reduction. This “Survivor Island “ style of learning can be handled by some people, but many struggle. I also understand that this style of learning has a few supporters who think it’s a weeding process to help keep those who aren’t good enough or smart enough out. Only the strong and committed survive. Even the old Fundamentals of Instruction, that many were supposed to have read, will tell you that different learners learn differently.

I understand why AW chose to teach this way, but I don’t agree with it. I stand by my opinion that it is a poor learning system, with numerous flaws, based on an outdated model that was poorly designed to begin with. Indoc and Systems were smooth, well paced, and gave time for people to learn and understand the new world of regional jets at AW. It’s the same style of learning that people experience from Kindergarten on through all of their aviation training, because it works. Then there’s a huge shift in learning style ... I know it’s not AW’s job to make people’s airline pilot dreams come true, but the company’s success is literally tied to this poor example of training.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:35 AM   #63  
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I finally left recently. I can’t tell anyone whether to come here or not. But I can say when I left, morale was at an all time low. Junior mans are now the norm and no longer the exception. AWAC is severely short on Captains as many have chosen to leave. Reserves are being abused and pushed to the maximum on a daily basis.
We have a new CP who doesn’t care about the pilot group except to treat them like ****. They no longer care if you have anything going on in your personal life. Their corporate culture has now become a hostile environment. If it was that wonderful here, why the massive amounts of attrition? They’re new attitude has become “Shut up and just fly.” We have a passive union that will not stick up for the pilots. And leaders who only care about drinking and eating themselves to death at ALPA meetings.
The pilot group isn’t respected but regarded as a liability according to management.
Some of these pilots were great and highly professional and a good group to fly with. It’s a shame what they’re doing to them.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:48 AM   #64  
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This is a shame to hear, I’m an AT. Have a buddy who went through training several months ago and did just fine, no issues. Speaks of the company very well, maybe he’s still on the new hire high INS. I was really looking forward to starting my career at ZW but from the sound of things, why would I if I’m just going to get treated like dirt under a rock. Also, researching Binns....yea he does seem like a company killer so the future of ZW is looking bleak IMO. If I show up to class in two months, only to be sold, merged or out of business completely in the next two yrs....either way I’d lose seniority, possibly an upgrade slot or have to start all over somewhere....can someone please just flat out tell a person in my position any positives or reasons to come to ZW now? Only reason I’m currently sticking with it is because I live near CAE, but even that outstation could go away as the rumor mill has it now, and health insurance. Thanks in advance, y’all have been really great about being straight forward and I look forward to your replies....I sincerely appreciate it!
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:47 AM   #65  
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Originally Posted by Cessnaflyer1213 View Post
Available on Day 1? Yes ... have to to read, understand, and digest while going through Indoc and systems? Hardly. I understand the premise of this style of learning which is mostly driven by cost reduction. This “Survivor Island “ style of learning can be handled by some people, but many struggle. I also understand that this style of learning has a few supporters who think it’s a weeding process to help keep those who aren’t good enough or smart enough out. Only the strong and committed survive. Even the old Fundamentals of Instruction, that many were supposed to have read, will tell you that different learners learn differently.

I understand why AW chose to teach this way, but I don’t agree with it. I stand by my opinion that it is a poor learning system, with numerous flaws, based on an outdated model that was poorly designed to begin with. Indoc and Systems were smooth, well paced, and gave time for people to learn and understand the new world of regional jets at AW. It’s the same style of learning that people experience from Kindergarten on through all of their aviation training, because it works. Then there’s a huge shift in learning style ... I know it’s not AW’s job to make people’s airline pilot dreams come true, but the company’s success is literally tied to this poor example of training.
If ZW only cared about cost savings, you’d get a flash drive in the mail with systems presentations and a letter that basically says “know this on day one”. You’d show up to Indoc and they’d pass out a written test to weed out the people that didn’t study. Which is how many airlines already do it. You’d have maybe a week in Appleton and then they’d send you to the sim, and would fire you after two sessions if you didn’t have the flows down. I have some sympathy if you get called two days after systems ends to come to CPT, but that should be the expectation. Two days plus a travel day is enough to at least get a rudimentary knowledge of the FO flows and day 1 stuff.

As far as different styles of learning, maybe this was a skill the non-college pilots never had to use, but there is nothing preventing you from creating study materials that fit your style of learning. I’m an Audio/visual learner, and most of my college courses required memorizing written material. So I’d find friends to quiz me verbally. If I couldn’t find friends, I’d record me saying the material out loud and listen to it. Plenty of people make videos of the flows for studying.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect professional aviators to be able to read and study a syllabus that clearly outlines everything they need to know AND has page numbers and references for all that material. No company is going to give you group flows/callout study time when you go to recurrent. ZW doesn’t repeatedly hammer limitations in ground school but you absolutely are expected to know them for a checkride, how is that any different than flows? You don’t need to understand anything about the airplane to memorize “flaps, fuel, radar, flight attendant”. The problem is many people read “know all your flows and callouts for day one” and don’t take it seriously.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:04 AM   #66  
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Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog View Post
I finally left recently. I can’t tell anyone whether to come here or not. But I can say when I left, morale was at an all time low. Junior mans are now the norm and no longer the exception. AWAC is severely short on Captains as many have chosen to leave. Reserves are being abused and pushed to the maximum on a daily basis.
We have a new CP who doesn’t care about the pilot group except to treat them like ****. They no longer care if you have anything going on in your personal life. Their corporate culture has now become a hostile environment. If it was that wonderful here, why the massive amounts of attrition? They’re new attitude has become “Shut up and just fly.” We have a passive union that will not stick up for the pilots. And leaders who only care about drinking and eating themselves to death at ALPA meetings.
The pilot group isn’t respected but regarded as a liability according to management.
Some of these pilots were great and highly professional and a good group to fly with. It’s a shame what they’re doing to them.
Did you actually witness this or are you just repeating hearsay? If you have any first hand info please PM me.

How would you recommend the union “stick up for pilots” more than they currently are? Every time I’ve had an issue I’ve called a union rep, they’ve called the company, and the company backed down. Or they reminded me that what the company was asking was contractual. There are a few things where the company has decided to unilaterally ignore the contract and those issues are in the grievance process. If you have a problem with how long the grievance process takes, call your senator and ask them to allocate more money to the arbitration process.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:48 AM   #67  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon View Post
How would you recommend the union “stick up for pilots” more than they currently are?
How about a strike vote. Nah, never mind. We need 11+ more years of contract dispute.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:50 AM   #68  
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Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog View Post
I finally left recently. I can’t tell anyone whether to come here or not. But I can say when I left, morale was at an all time low. Junior mans are now the norm and no longer the exception. AWAC is severely short on Captains as many have chosen to leave. Reserves are being abused and pushed to the maximum on a daily basis.
We have a new CP who doesn’t care about the pilot group except to treat them like ****. They no longer care if you have anything going on in your personal life. Their corporate culture has now become a hostile environment. If it was that wonderful here, why the massive amounts of attrition? They’re new attitude has become “Shut up and just fly.” We have a passive union that will not stick up for the pilots. And leaders who only care about drinking and eating themselves to death at ALPA meetings.
The pilot group isn’t respected but regarded as a liability according to management.
Some of these pilots were great and highly professional and a good group to fly with. It’s a shame what they’re doing to them.
Ding ding ding, we almost have a winner. I think this post is #2 right behind the 'slit my wrist' post.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:19 PM   #69  
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Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon View Post
Did you actually witness this or are you just repeating hearsay? If you have any first hand info please PM me.

How would you recommend the union “stick up for pilots” more than they currently are? Every time I’ve had an issue I’ve called a union rep, they’ve called the company, and the company backed down. Or they reminded me that what the company was asking was contractual. There are a few things where the company has decided to unilaterally ignore the contract and those issues are in the grievance process. If you have a problem with how long the grievance process takes, call your senator and ask them to allocate more money to the arbitration process.
I’ve witnessed and been part of it. Why should I PM you? Are you management? If so, you know what I am referring to by trying to intimidate pilots who call in sick or can’t accept junior man assignments due to other obligations outside of work. I was given an unavailable for not being able to accept a junior man assignment because of an obligation.
I get it AWAC is short handed. But why treat those who are willing to help out like ****?
All they’re doing is running the good ones off.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:57 PM   #70  
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Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog View Post
I’ve witnessed and been part of it. Why should I PM you?Are you management? If so, you know what I am referring to by trying to intimidate pilots who call in sick or can’t accept junior man assignments due to other obligations outside of work. I was given an unavailable for not being able to accept a junior man assignment because of an obligation.
I get it AWAC is short handed. But why treat those who are willing to help out like ****?
All they’re doing is running the good ones off.
Because either my dues money is getting wasted and I want to know about it or you’re slandering the union for no reason. I’m not management.

Any time I’ve had a legit reason not to accept a junior man, they’ve let me off the hook with no penalty. Never been second guessed for calling in sick either.
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