PSA or Air Wisconsin
 

Hello,
I just recently got an offer with both airlines, living close to DC both would have a base that i can drive to easily.
Wanted to see what people's opinion would be in this case.
Psa does pay more and mainly has a guaranteed flow to AA, since i don't have a Bachelor's this is very interesting.
Air Wisconsin does have opportunities to credit more hours at quite lower rate and better Healthcare, but Career Path i only after i get a Bachelor's and guarantees only an interview with United, which honestly i can do at PSA since the Bachelor degree can be done thru ALPA.
I have flown in the Airline industry for 11 in Europe so hour wise i am good.

Wonder if people have insight or come up with things that i haven't thought about yet.

Air Willy does have some awesome health care. That said, I would lean PSA. Over the long haul, you'll make more money, not work for a company that is slowly shrinking with zero investment (how many planes have been beer canned since the delivery of El Guapo?), and have a solid path to a major airline. The CPP time is in the 7-8 year range and the success rate is somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3. If you wanted to go to UAL via a CPP, Commute Air's time is 2-3 years. And as always, there is the 11th (I think that's right) year of never ending contract negotiations.

Here is my take. I have been at AWAC 13 1/2 years. At my age, I doubt I’ll be able to go anywhere. I do get 4 weeks vacation, make good money, have excellent health insurance and a good 401K.

We have had nine new hires in the past two months get awarded Captain RSV right out of new hire ground school. They will end up in CAE and MKE for a while and will be on RSV for quite a while. IAD seems quite senior for Line holders. As for being RSV in IAD? It’s hit or miss as it depends on vacancies. I’ve seen new hire go directly to IAD and ORD in the past as FO RSV. We have two statuses per seat, line holder and RSV. As a line holder you’ll only get a RSV line if you deliberately bid it. You’re guaranteed a line each month.
If you want to fly and make money, you will at AWAC. All the RSV FOs I’ve flown with are flying their butts off.
As for the CPP, I have my personal opinions of it. Upgrade is very quick now if you want it. You can chose to bypass if you so desire. As for flying older CRJ 200’s? So does Skywest and ExpressJet. As for operational snafus and staffing? It’s all the same anywhere you go.
I love flying for AWAC. It’s a great fit for me. If you decide to come on board, then welcome aboard.


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Not accurate as far as time and there’s more to the story on some of the interview failures.

I know guys in the June class. They've been here just over 8 years.
And I agree, there is more to the story on the interview failures. There are now folks getting 'washed out' after the review board. There is no transparency to the back of house on the CPP.

I agree, PSA has a defined path, while Air Wisconsin not so much. No growth, no investment and a new guy that just got hired who’s a specialist at shutting down airlines. Plus training pay at slick Willy is LOW, no 24hr per diem like at PSA, any way Air Willy can save a dime they will, like send you to PHX or CVG with no per diem even though your away from your base ATW no food allowance, nothing. So if you like that, go for it. And the clapped out CL 65’s from Mexico and here. Hope you like that’s deffered, time to do a manual w/b on every leg.

You ask a very complex question here. I have been at AWAC 18 mo. Im a CA. I used to work at an AA wholly owned. You will not make more money at PSA You will make less. Pay rate is not the end-all. Segment is what we are paid on. I never fly more than 70hrs a month and I never credit less than 100. The flow is not guaranteed. The flow is NOT guaranteed. I know plenty of guys that can’t flow for various reasons. You can prob get IAD reserve FO within 12 mos. at AWAC. CA prob a decade. Go where you can drive to work. Living in base makes your life waaaaaaaaay better.

P.S. If it matters, travel benefits better at AAWO.

You do? Please tell us the reasons.
I don't believe there's anything that will prevent you from flowing indefinitely.

You have to do a lot in order to not be able to flow. To be honest, otherwise it is a guaranteed backup card. Treat it as such while trying to get hired off the street to the majors.

Otherwise, if DC is what you want, I would go PSA over AWAC. You’ll hold it a few months after training as an FO and and by the time you upgrade at PSA, you’ll hold it sooner as a CA then you will hold it at AWAC..... but yes driving to work makes qol much much better..

Good 401k? Thanks for the laugh. Maybe for a regional, most the guys here aren’t looking to retire at a regional.

Don’t give false information without providing proof. Add a picture of your last 6 months of pay sheets covered with pencil marks scribbled all over it because the company won’t pay for modern software.

It is not typical to block less than 70hrs and credit more than 100.

The average 401k match is almost half of AWAC's. It's a pretty decent plan but of course the major level pays more out as a % and $ level, because salaries are also higher.

I'm trying to remember exact numbers but when I left AWAC at eight years IIRC I had around 200k in retirement between my 401k and IRA. And that was when CA pay was less than FO pay is currently. So you won't retire wealthy but done right as long as you stay employed you'll be a multi-millionaire.

That being said I think I would slit my wrists if I were still there.

This should have been the first and only response to the original poster.

Compared to other regionals and even other places in corporate America? I did pretty well with my 401K during my tenure at AWAC.

LOL. I’ll second this comment. No idea how bad AW was until I left AW. What I will also add to this thread is that at AW “the next big thing is always right around the corner.”

Given a choice in today’s market, if you’re just getting into the 121 world, this would be one of the last places I would go. Sure, they have good insurance and a decent 401k, but look at the big picture. They simply cannot compete in this market. Not to mention the management and labor relations are absolutelty terrible. What is this, year 11+ of contract negotiations?

Look at it this way, I flew with some of the most professional pilots ever at Air Wisconsin. At PSA, you’ll have no problem getting passed the background check. Ask that guy who was charged in that triple murder.

If you're on reserve it's easy. Do you actually work in AWAC?

Considering the fact that PSA has been growing for several years now and AWAC has not, I’d imagine they have a tougher time being picky with applicants. That guy is a real head-scratcher though when you look at his history. Hard to imagine him getting hired anywhere to fly anything.

Your goal shouldn't be on what crew bases the regional have. You never know what bases the airline would abandon.

Also, the "flow", don't rely on it. One economic downturn, you will be flowing for 10 years. There are some guys (without degrees) who have been hired through the United CPP program, however, it's contingent upon completion of their bachelors.

There's a lot of movement here in Air Wisconsin. You can reach captain upon reaching 1000 hrs SIC. Also, they are lacking CPT and Sim instructors, another pad on your resume if you so desire.

If you need to make more money, we have a lot of open time. There's an FO in Columbia that tries to fly whatever he can legally. He will hit 100k for this year w/o the bonuses.

If the flow is stopped it’s because the whole industry has stopped hiring most likely. An economic downturn is bad for everyone industry-wide and people will be stuck where they’re at for a while. But I agree, a new hire today should only really consider the flow as a tool that generates constant movement off the top of the seniority list. Not as a way to get a legacy job...

I say go to wherever you’ll be happy. If you’re from CAE and want to live in base? AWAC is a good fit for you. If you live in the Northern VA, DCA or ORF area and don’t want to commute, then PSA would be a good choice.
During my time, except a year I had to commute and commuting sucks. It’s aggravating and stressful. It’s no fun getting bumped off jumpseats or being sandwiched between two fat people in a middle seat oozing into your personal space. Plus commuting you have to come in the day before sometimes or can’t get home that day when you’re finished.
Plus, commuting you deal with delays, cancellations, weather and perpetually full flights.
Take a fool’s advice and if you value you’re sanity, don’t commute.