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-700 at the MX hangar in ATW

Old 03-07-2021, 08:03 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Imapylot View Post
I made no differentiation between wanting and deserving. In fact, I didn’t even use those words at all. I just said it’s a bad contract. One of the biggest reasons I voted no actually had nothing to do with pay or rigs or work rules or anything that could be considered more than what we got. It was grey areas and holes in language. There are too many examples of weak language that the company can and will take advantage of. I came here from another airline that had rock solid language in their mediocre contract. When the initial negotiations started a long long time ago, I told the union my opinion that they need to shore up a lot of the language. I said that in every survey they gave us. I voted no on every TA and stated that as a reason I voted no. So when I say it’s a bad contract it’s not even about wanting more, it’s about making sure what’s actually in it can’t be taken advantage of by the company. So get your stupid privilege argument out of here.
Oh but all your posts do make that argument. I want more too and that's ok. I don't walk around crapping on everything we do have just because I would like more. If your last company had better language that you felt more comfortable with, you should have stayed there. I agree that some of our language could and should be tighter. I don't even think the union guys would disagree there. The difference between them and you is that they take those arguments directly to the company to get things done in a recognized capacity. All you are doing is crying behind a keyboard trying to stir the rest of us up with bad info because you prefer that over asking the guys that you know will give you the correct info. If you want more that badly, go stick your own neck on the line in one of the contentious union spots to make things better for all of us. All of this is what shows your privilege and the obliviousness towards it. My buddies from ExpressJet would love to have your crappy contract. I'm sure the same can be said for the Compass and TransStates pilots as well.
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Old 03-07-2021, 08:06 AM
  #142  
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After reading my posts, I did say I wanted more. I’m sorry if that was confusing and I’m sorry if my last long post was insulting. I do understand that you can’t get everything you want. That’s why it’s called negotiating. However, I still stand by my statement that we have a lot of weak language. Cleaning up language hurts nobody and helps both sides. It prevents long drawn out grievances when the existing language is vague. Strong language helps to prevent any misinterpretation of said language. Again, sorry that I kinda snapped on my last post. I did imply I wanted more but my real frustration with the contract and previous contracts and TAs is the weak language. The company can and will use every loophole they can find to their advantage.
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Old 03-07-2021, 08:12 AM
  #143  
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Also, I left my last company for many reasons. Huge reasons were 10 year upgrades and people being displaced multiple times per year. Hindsight is always 20/20, though. I’d be in a much better position financially and career progression wise if I stayed there but I made the decision not knowing what the future would be.
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Old 03-07-2021, 08:35 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Imapylot View Post
After reading my posts, I did say I wanted more. I’m sorry if that was confusing and I’m sorry if my last long post was insulting. I do understand that you can’t get everything you want. That’s why it’s called negotiating. However, I still stand by my statement that we have a lot of weak language. Cleaning up language hurts nobody and helps both sides. It prevents long drawn out grievances when the existing language is vague. Strong language helps to prevent any misinterpretation of said language. Again, sorry that I kinda snapped on my last post. I did imply I wanted more but my real frustration with the contract and previous contracts and TAs is the weak language. The company can and will use every loophole they can find to their advantage.
It wasn't personally insulting and I do get your frustration because I have some of those too. I've been in a position in the past where those guys dropped everything to get me out of a jam and I'm glad that we have the guys we do. I don't always agree with the things that happen here but after dealing with our guys for this long, they get the benefit of the doubt because I know the work they put in and I'm not sure many others would do it. Even when I'm frustrated, I call the reps or the mec for more info and usually end up with a better understanding of what happened. The industry isn't what it was a couple years ago anymore. This pandemic took away all our momentum in the industry. When I talk to my friend from ExpressJet that is still struggling to get a job and support his family, it puts things into perspective and makes me thankful that our positions aren't switched.
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:58 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Imapylot View Post
But they didn’t explain it more concisely. The email from the union says the company was entitled to use section 9, the 700 rate is 2.2% higher than 200 October 2021 rate and 900 rate is 2.2% higher than 700 rate. That does not explain anything more concisely than what’s in the actual award. They explained nothing. They stated 2 facts that are in the award. Stating facts is not the same as explaining something.
Omnislash
this ^^^^^
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Old 03-07-2021, 11:10 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Escargot View Post
Omnislash
this ^^^^^
That was likely on purpose so that we wouldn't go and try to improperly read into all the other information in that 36 page document. I know I would have if they didn't make clear that that the information mentioned in the their email is the stuff that actually concerns us. Even still, pilots are spewing their own inaccurate interpretations. Imagine how much more inaccurate those would be if they didn't make clear that only those specific pieces matter.
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Old 03-07-2021, 11:11 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Omnislash View Post
It actually makes sense though. Guys like you are always going to think the worst and trash it no matter what it says. I'm glad they took the extra day to go through it and explain it more concisely before all the guys who think we should have gotten UA 777 rates post their negativity and hate to confuse the rest of us. Spoke with the NC and he answered all my questions. Would I have liked higher pay? Absolutely but I am glad they put up the fight that they did based on everything the company was trying to get while using the pandemic and industry reductions to sway the arbitrator.
I had no questions either, once I read the memo. I just don't understand the puppy-guarding of information. Why should I need to call someone to find out a decision that is already final and binding? The extra email added nothing.
I appreciate their work but I do think more transparency would be appreciated by the rest of the pilot group.
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Old 03-07-2021, 11:45 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Escargot View Post
I had no questions either, once I read the memo. I just don't understand the puppy-guarding of information. Why should I need to call someone to find out a decision that is already final and binding? The extra email added nothing.
I appreciate their work but I do think more transparency would be appreciated by the rest of the pilot group.
I wouldn't call it puppy guarding. I'm glad they highlighted what actually will matter to us because the rest of that document seems to be all over the place. You absolutely don't need to call to find out the decision, but if you have questions about the rest of the information in the document, shouldn't you ask them. We are our worst enemy and always think the worst. Had they not reinforced the specific parts that will actually apply, the pilot interpretations of this would likely be way worse. I had a couple background questions that don't change the decision so I made a phone call and got my questions answered. My questions might be completely different than yours and I don't expect them to think of any possible questions every pilot may have. That's why they make themselves available. I'm not sure what more transparency you want than that. If you don't ask your specific question directly and instead come here for a definitive answer on anything you think of, it's like asking a random passenger on a flight how to best navigate around thunderstorms on your way to your destination.
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Old 03-07-2021, 04:40 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Omnislash View Post
I wouldn't call it puppy guarding. I'm glad they highlighted what actually will matter to us because the rest of that document seems to be all over the place. You absolutely don't need to call to find out the decision, but if you have questions about the rest of the information in the document, shouldn't you ask them. We are our worst enemy and always think the worst. Had they not reinforced the specific parts that will actually apply, the pilot interpretations of this would likely be way worse. I had a couple background questions that don't change the decision so I made a phone call and got my questions answered. My questions might be completely different than yours and I don't expect them to think of any possible questions every pilot may have. That's why they make themselves available. I'm not sure what more transparency you want than that. If you don't ask your specific question directly and instead come here for a definitive answer on anything you think of, it's like asking a random passenger on a flight how to best navigate around thunderstorms on your way to your destination.
Your opinion has been noted. I don't feel like I need babysitting, but I can see where you think others might. I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote, because I have zero questions after reading the document. Perhaps you need someone from the union to explain that to you? In my opinion, your response is emotional and rather sententious.
I cheer the efforts of our union reps while acknowledging the objective facts of the situation, which aren't pretty, but are about what one might expect. Good day!
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Old 03-07-2021, 06:18 PM
  #150  
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I read your post and understood it. You literally stated:

Why should I need to call someone to find out a decision that is already final and binding?

​​​​​
Some people had other questions. I myself had a few but still understood the decision. Good to know you didn't have any at all. I'm just unsure what you meant by wanting more transparency and that was my question in the last post.
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