View Poll Results: What should I choose? Alaska or UPS?
Alaska
18
13.53%
UPS
115
86.47%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll
Alaska or UPS?
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Picture this:
You have 1 week of vacation. Lets say it lands on September 10-17. You bid 60, so you have to bid 60 lines. One of your last choices (worth 80 hours) has 1 day of a 4 day(22 hours) on the 10th and 1 day on a 4 day on the 17th (22 hours). A real contract with real work rules would dump both trips and pay you line guarantee.
However, because of Alaska's outstanding work rules, your 7 days of vacation are worth 21.5 hours. Your awarded 80 hour line has lost 44 hours because of trip drops to 36 hours, and add on your 21.5 hours of credit, which puts you at 57.5 hours. You now have to rebid for open flying trips in 2 rounds, trying to find open trips to get you back up to the line minimum (75). If you can't, then scheduling gets to try and find things for you to fly. If they can't find anything, you get a chance to opt in, or opt out. If you opt out, you get paid 57.5 hours. All because you used your one week of vacation.
If you try and bid a reserve line, you can try to find a line that has 5 days that work over your vacation. Some have 6 days of a reserve in a row. Minimum is 12 days off for reserves. If for some reason, you end up getting a reserve line that has 5 days off over you 7 days of vacation, you don't get any extra days off. You now have 14 days off for your vacation month on reserve by using 7 days of vacation.
You have 1 week of vacation. Lets say it lands on September 10-17. You bid 60, so you have to bid 60 lines. One of your last choices (worth 80 hours) has 1 day of a 4 day(22 hours) on the 10th and 1 day on a 4 day on the 17th (22 hours). A real contract with real work rules would dump both trips and pay you line guarantee.
However, because of Alaska's outstanding work rules, your 7 days of vacation are worth 21.5 hours. Your awarded 80 hour line has lost 44 hours because of trip drops to 36 hours, and add on your 21.5 hours of credit, which puts you at 57.5 hours. You now have to rebid for open flying trips in 2 rounds, trying to find open trips to get you back up to the line minimum (75). If you can't, then scheduling gets to try and find things for you to fly. If they can't find anything, you get a chance to opt in, or opt out. If you opt out, you get paid 57.5 hours. All because you used your one week of vacation.
If you try and bid a reserve line, you can try to find a line that has 5 days that work over your vacation. Some have 6 days of a reserve in a row. Minimum is 12 days off for reserves. If for some reason, you end up getting a reserve line that has 5 days off over you 7 days of vacation, you don't get any extra days off. You now have 14 days off for your vacation month on reserve by using 7 days of vacation.
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 936
Vacation days are worth 3.5. 7 days is 24.5 hrs of vacation pay. I know how our system works. I’ve also worked at an airline that had pay protection for conflicts including vacation. Yes, I agree, our system is junk and needs improving but I can’t imagine still having to fly 16 days. Even in your scenario, you have 60.5 hrs after the vacation credit is added. You need 15 hrs if the min is 75. A crap 3 day added back puts you working 11 days. Two 4 days and a 3 day. Even adding back a 4 day gets you working 12 for the month. Why would you add back both 4 days?
Imagine. Just for one moment. You’re not super senior. None of your trades go through for step 1. Second step you get crap and wind up with crap. But it’s better than negotiating with scheduling via email.
I know empathy is hard but I believe in you. Unity 2020 and all...
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#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Imagine. Just for one moment. You’re not super senior. None of your trades go through for step 1. Second step you get crap and wind up with crap. But it’s better than negotiating with scheduling via email.
I know empathy is hard but I believe in you. Unity 2020 and all...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I know empathy is hard but I believe in you. Unity 2020 and all...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This has nothing to do with seniority or the quality of the trips picked up or awarded. Even if you were the last pilot on the list and weren't awarded ANY trades, scheduling is still only going to add back the time needed to reach the monthly min. In the scenario provided, it would be 14.5 or 15 hr. (3 day trips, a 3 day a 4 day etc.) The end result would still be 11 or 12 days worked. Hence my confusion about having to work 16 days if 7 or 8 vacation days were indeed used.
Don't worry yourself with my level of empathy or intentions for 2020. I've been fighting the union fight for all seniority levels loooong before you joined ALPA.
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 357
Vacation days are worth 3.5. 7 days is 24.5 hrs of vacation pay. I know how our system works. I’ve also worked at an airline that had pay protection for conflicts including vacation. Yes, I agree, our system is junk and needs improving but I can’t imagine still having to fly 16 days. Even in your scenario, you have 60.5 hrs after the vacation credit is added. You need 15 hrs if the min is 75. A crap 3 day added back puts you working 11 days. Two 4 days and a 3 day. Even adding back a 4 day gets you working 12 for the month. Why would you add back both 4 days?
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 325
This is true.. but toss in some lovely 11 hour 3 day trips and all of a sudden your vacation month becomes a vacation and then getting to work every day to pay the piper for your vacation.
I now see why everyone here uses single vacation days to manipulate their schedule. Using your days as a block for a real vacation makes your life miserable with bidding, step trading, and then boom somehow you’re still under required credit. It’s so incredibly infuriating.
You should be raking up dollar bills on vacation months with trip touching while not working hardly at all. The vacation system at Alaska needs a serious overhaul much like everything else in the contract.
I now see why everyone here uses single vacation days to manipulate their schedule. Using your days as a block for a real vacation makes your life miserable with bidding, step trading, and then boom somehow you’re still under required credit. It’s so incredibly infuriating.
You should be raking up dollar bills on vacation months with trip touching while not working hardly at all. The vacation system at Alaska needs a serious overhaul much like everything else in the contract.
Yeah, I know how it works but to use 7 or 8 days in one month and still have to work 16 days seems self induced. That’s 24.5 or 28 hrs credited to the month that you can drop. That’s most 4 days plus some. Most lines aren’t built to the min credit for the month so there’s usually a small buffer allowing you to drop a trip or two and not go below the min credit especially using that many vacation days. Even a 12 day off line has so many low credit trips crammed into the month, you should still be able to drop a few and not go below using 7 or 8 days. If you’re using less than that, say 1,2 or maybe 3 days, then yes, I can see having to pick back up after dropping a trip and working 15-16 days. All depends on how well you work the system I guess.
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
No, you couldn’t trade day for day. I don’t know of any other airline that allows it. Wasn’t day for day trading a consolation prize for losing pay protection from trips touching vacation here at AS? I do like being able to shotgun my days out and have been able to turn many months into “vacation” months. However, having to pick back up to a monthly minimum negates some of the potency of day for day trading. I’ve found that 3 days together or spaced by a day is the sweet spot.
#57
There must be vast differences between the Boeing and the Bus.....I’m top 3rd in the bus in LAX and it’s RARE that I get anything above 80 hours.
And even if I do? I trigger some BS illegality that requires me to fix it. And again, I can’t speak for the Boeing....but the open time we get in LAX is less than desirable.
That said, I’ve had it happen multiple times where I wasn’t able to correct my illegalities in either step. So now you have to beg and plead with the nice scheduling lady to not make it hurt too much. She does her best to accommodate you but sometimes it doesn’t work.
Factor in a transcon commute? And it’s a crap sammich with a diarrhea reduction (work rules).
I’m praying that this all gets resolved in 2020. This place really has the potential to be an awesome airline. But as long as mgmt keeps trying to divide us....it’s gonna be a long road to recovery.
And even if I do? I trigger some BS illegality that requires me to fix it. And again, I can’t speak for the Boeing....but the open time we get in LAX is less than desirable.
That said, I’ve had it happen multiple times where I wasn’t able to correct my illegalities in either step. So now you have to beg and plead with the nice scheduling lady to not make it hurt too much. She does her best to accommodate you but sometimes it doesn’t work.
Factor in a transcon commute? And it’s a crap sammich with a diarrhea reduction (work rules).
I’m praying that this all gets resolved in 2020. This place really has the potential to be an awesome airline. But as long as mgmt keeps trying to divide us....it’s gonna be a long road to recovery.
#58
So there are F.O.’s that are 2+ years on the list and they can’t avoid all nighters? Not long ago, guys used to spend years and years on reserve before they could hold a line. If it’s down to under a year, I’d say that’s trending for the better. It was a solid year n 1/2 before I could hold consistent lines.
Can you avoid night flying after 2 years at UPS? I don’t know but I’m told no and you can expect it for the majority of your career there. You won’t spend the majority of your career at AS flying WOCL unless you want to. Is that a reason to choose AS over UPS? Depends on the person and how they want to live their life.
These Vs. threads are pretty useless because there’s no way to know where someone will spend a happier career. Someone may enjoy day trips at Allegiant more than 7-14 days on the road at UPS/Fed Ex. There’s a lid for every pot.
Can you avoid night flying after 2 years at UPS? I don’t know but I’m told no and you can expect it for the majority of your career there. You won’t spend the majority of your career at AS flying WOCL unless you want to. Is that a reason to choose AS over UPS? Depends on the person and how they want to live their life.
These Vs. threads are pretty useless because there’s no way to know where someone will spend a happier career. Someone may enjoy day trips at Allegiant more than 7-14 days on the road at UPS/Fed Ex. There’s a lid for every pot.
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
A “dick for every dike”??? :0 Not quite what I was going for. It’s also an old German expression meaning the more obvious and appropriate. “ there’s something for everyone”
#60
Op elk potje past een dekseltje (dutch version), never realized how much better your english version is
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