Of which you have zero first hand knowledge but are not reluctant to provide your expert analysis.

For sure, I totally get that. I'm young and junior enough that working for a stronger company with job protections and work rules is worth getting hosed on an SLI. For people that are older and have more time invested at AS I 100% understand that it's a terrifying prospect.

Analysis? Yeah that was some deep analysis all right.

So we can't learn from history? No real stretch of the imagination that dis-similar unions are going to have less-predictable SLI outcomes. And then there was the whole tranny thing, not really in the spirit of Mccaskill-Bond, doesn't require any real expertise to call that one.

What's your point?

EDIT: Oh I got it now. A quick review shows that I had to give you several infractions for repeated insults and flamebait so you're lashing out. Better go easy.

Unless the total collapse of the airline industry continues, there is no way the DOJ allows LUV to buy ALK. How much overlap do the two airlines have? The entire west coast would be dominated by the new Southwest.

And what if the MAX never gets certified? Or what if it does get certified but requires a different type rating? That alone destroys the "1 type philosophy" at Southwest. Alaska would be foolish to get rid of its airbus before a decision is made on the max and Southwest would be foolish to buy an all 737 operator before a decision is made on the max. Even if there will be a bunch of used 737's on the market, they will be at a serious cost disadvantage when competing with NEO's and CSeries.

Southwest is much more likely to be allowed to buy Jetblue but they will wait for a decision on the MAX. I pray it doesn't happen.

Things which were inconceivable pre-covid may not be so inconceivable now.

But I agree that the recovery would have to be much worse than expected for something like that to be authorized.

Politicians have expressed clear disapproval for rushed mergers via the CARES act.

Yet one more example of how screwed up this board really is.

Just to play devil's advocate... the west coast airports aren't slot controlled (well, SNA, LGB, but those are minor players here). With the travel downturn we are seeing gates becoming more available in LAX/SFO so where would there be a case for the DOT/DOJ to deny? Airtran+SWA combo dominated BWI and the DOJ didn't care.

VA's yields were garbage compared to Alaska's.

You missed the point. The most loyal VX Californian customers with high disposable income left to other airlines once the garbage product of Alaska was introduced. The economy of California is massive, and the Angle lake arrogance destroyed the chance they had of capturing California. Everything since has been a pullback to SEA and a general failure of the "Most West Coast" strategy.

Things must be getting back to normal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jetBlue already stole the high end customers when they brought MINT to VX's hubs. The A listers switched en-mass. VX was a dead man walking and VERY lucky jetBlue was thirsty for LAX/SFO space.

*citation needed*

Thats why my first sentence said, "unless this collapse continues". If it continues, all bets are off.

David Cush

All those people were flying United before and after. They have an international network and a lie-flat product between LAX/SFO and the northeast.

VA was flying low yielding east west traffic searching for the lowest internet fares. Don't let those (4) seats in the front of their airplanes fool you.

Again, most A-listers are already flying someone else. There isn't enough premium traffic in most narrowbody markets to really make a difference.

Yeaherrrr no.
Erjfo is pretty deep in the koolaid.

I dunno... but I REGULARLY saw A-Listers on the VX flights for many years...

In the end, the only part of buying VX that did not go well was to pretend that “different works” and not just go with Honesty and Integrity. “We are buying Virgin America to eliminate competition and create a small inroad to the California market that would take longer to grow organically”. Instead we have wasted a bunch of money and created lots of confusion and angst with this illusion....Have thoroughly enjoyed the Airbus but it really is time to streamline. Go single fleet and get a flock of Maxes. It is the same old cheap junk but it has made a ton of money and we are not and never will be a “high-value A-lister airline. Unfortunately, we have become much more interested in impression and image and not worried so much about honesty, integrity and reality

Your sightings started to dry up in 2014 I bet.

Today, Alaska announced that Horizon Embraer 175 jets will fly select markets in the state of Alaska starting in October 2020.

“Alaskans who have flown the E175 jet in the Lower 48 have frequently asked when they might see the plane in the state, and we’re thrilled the time has come,” said Marilyn Romano, regional vice president for the state of Alaska. “This jet gives us the flexibility to increase daily frequency between Anchorage and Fairbanks, and to provide year-round service to King Salmon and Dillingham. In time, the new mix of aircraft will unlock other markets in the state for future service.”

The E175 aircraft compliments the current Boeing 737 mainline flying in, to and from the state of Alaska and is perfect for many communities where larger jets are not the best option. This includes smaller communities such as King Salmon and Dillingham, which rely on our service to connect the region to the state’s largest city, Anchorage, and our extensive route network. The longer range of the E175, compared to Horizon’s Q400 aircraft, also makes it possible to provide direct service between Seattle and Anchorage, allowing for a highly efficient rotation of regional aircraft into the state.

“Horizon is working hard to position itself as the #1 regional airline in the country, and we’re excited to extend our service north to Alaska,” said Joe Sprague, Horizon president. “Being tapped for this flying is just one example of how Horizon can support Air Group’s recovery. By staying focused on a safe and reliable operation, we can maintain this momentum and be ready for other opportunities that come our way.”

I took Pauly Shore LAX JFK in 2016 so there!

but he was seated in row 32

I am a pre-launch VX guy. From day 1, we were a taxi service between LA and NYC for celebrities and movie stars. I literally can't count how many. That all ended with JB mint, and has NEVER been an issue with Alaskan Air.

Cheers - Rob.

Have hauled hundreds of Hollyweirders between LAX and SEA over the last 22 years. A few of those 100’s were decent folks...The rest, glad we don’t compete much for their business. 321NEO is definitely the airplane to haul that crowd on though. Going to miss flying it when they are gone.

"Alaskan Air"??? Wow. Don't even know the proper name of your own company?

How pathetic is that?🙄

How pathetic is it that you don't know shade when you see it...

Its “Alaskan Airlines”.

Scope anyone? Perhaps THIS will open the eyes of the past pee on themselves puppies up in the PNW.....not holding my breath.

Nobody should hold their breath. That ship has sailed.

You mean deep in the data.

Maybe there were A-Listers but they didnt pay much. The fare data from Form 41 and Sabre shows that VX had the lowest cabin-wide yields in their transcon markets.

JetBlue isn't leading in those markets from a revenue perspective. Look at Mint fares (in a data source not by doing a Google search) Delta, United, ect are destroying their yeilds.

You are conflating revenue and yields. You understand they can not be a revenue leader while their "yeilds" [sic] aren't being "destroyed" right? Other airlines ran larger equipment pre-covid (some as big as 777 as in the case of United BOS-SFO in order to provide a decent front-of-cabin competitive product) and have much larger overhead costs on premium services that JB doesn't have. Revenue should indeed be higher if you run a 300-seat aircraft against a 160-seat aircraft.

JB's yields on premium transcon are not being destroyed by Delta, United, "ect" [sic], pre-covid obviously. In fact, one could argue the reason JB just expanded Mint to EWR-LAX/SFO is due to the yield and product advantage they have over United. I guess we can wait and see if that works out.

I should have been more clear. I'm talking about revenue per seat and average cabin wide fare. When I look at JB fares in the premium cabin versus DL and UA, they are much lower.

You have discovered the entire premise of JB Mint. Congrats. Just wait until you see what they do with London premium fares. Your head will explode!

Sure, but the LF% isn't there.

yes right now.... good thing it isn’t starting for
over a year....

The only time I will ever care about B listers in the cabin is if there is an override attached to it.

Load factor AND yield were just fine pre-Covid. This is a VX merger thread, right? Honestly you come across as not knowing what you're talking about. And not just because you couldn't spell yield.

Spelling has never been my strong suit. Neither is thinking clearly at 2AM, yet, here I am.

The only point I was really trying to make is that VX never had the highest front cabin yields in the transcon markets. Someone made the point that VX lost "A-listers" to JetBlue and while they might have lost celebrities, VX never had the most lucrative traffic in the market.

Additionally, it's hard to imagine the majority of VX's west coast point of sale moving over to JetBlue just based on the limited network that JetBlue has intra west coast. It makes obvious sense that some or most NYC based VX frequent fliers moved over to JetBlue as Mint came alive and VX went away.

In terms of profitability, there is a reason JetBlue is expanding Mint. My earlier comparison of revenue per seat is meaningless without looking at cost, to your point. The non-flying cost of the other carriers offering lie flat seats in the California- NYC market and JetBlue are very different; this allows JetBlue to compete with lower fares. It is also the reason the big three are moving to larger and larger gauge in an effort to reduce CASM.

My argument was never intended to be about the success of the Mint product. It was however a disagrement around how "premium" VX's premium traffic was and where that traffic went after the merger.