The Alaska discount is alive and well
02-01-2023, 09:43 PM
#121
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
Originally Posted by Jetlikespeed
wby can’t we have both? Keep the commuter hotel policy and match deltas pay. I don’t how how close AA UA and SWA are but if they get contracts before 9/1 we will snap
up to DLs pay. So in time we will have both
up to DLs pay. So in time we will have both
02-02-2023, 02:18 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by Cruz5350
Except it’s not a snap up it’s an average…. Apparently everyone either glanced over that fact or it wasn’t explained well by the reps. It would be great if you could match DL pay and have hotels, better leverage for all the rest to get that but it’s not guna happen on this cycle.
02-02-2023, 03:22 AM
#123
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,603
It absolutely was because countless people on here think come 8/1 they’re guna be equivalent to DAL and whoever else has a new contract in place. No you absolutely won’t be within a few dollars that’s not how the law of averages works. As it stands with AS/JB/DL averaged out it’ll be $320/hr for a topped out CA that’s actually incorrect though because it’s not using the current AA/UA rates which will only bring it down more assuming they’re not signed in by then.
02-02-2023, 08:49 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by Cruz5350
It absolutely was because countless people on here think come 8/1 they’re guna be equivalent to DAL and whoever else has a new contract in place. No you absolutely won’t be within a few dollars that’s not how the law of averages works. As it stands with AS/JB/DL averaged out it’ll be $320/hr for a topped out CA that’s actually incorrect though because it’s not using the current AA/UA rates which will only bring it down more assuming they’re not signed in by then.
I do hold the NC and rest of the Union guys in high regard, but this was very poorly explained. some have told me that this was how the reps explained it to them.... I find it hard to believe a rep would purposefully mislead a pilot which makes me think the reps didn't fully understand the language. It's been sliced and diced six ways from Sunday now. Guys have created spread sheets and excel documents, trying to explain what needs to happen in order for us to see an increase over our scheduled 4% raise on 9/1/23. Yet, there are still a special few, who refuse to acknowledge, this is not a "snap up". At the rate UAL and SW are going, their rates will weigh down the average and we will not see an increase on 9/1/23. Keep in mind, it takes a couple of months to go from AIP-TA-CBA. So if UAL, AA, SW don't have AIP's by 8/1/23....we can rest assured, we will not see an increase above 4%. Anything signed on 00:01 on 9/2/23, will not be counted in our Average up. You better believe the company will hold us to that. HeII, they'll probably argue that anything signed after 00:01 on 9/1/23 won't be counted since our raise takes effect at 00:00.
As has been stated many, many, times here, our first chance of seeing an increase over the 4% raise will be 9/1/24.
02-02-2023, 09:07 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
It's astounding how misunderstood this, "Average Rate Adjustment", language is. I still fly with guys that think once DAL signs, we, "snap up", to their rate. They believe the look back, only includes newly signed CBA rates, excluding rates from companies that haven't signed new contracts. Now that JB has signed, ALL 5 AIRLINES ARE USED IN THE AVERAGE REGARDLESS OF HAVING A NEW OR OLD CBA IN PLACE. The look on their faces when I slowly read and explain the language is something to see.
I do hold the NC and rest of the Union guys in high regard, but this was very poorly explained. some have told me that this was how the reps explained it to them.... I find it hard to believe a rep would purposefully mislead a pilot which makes me think the reps didn't fully understand the language. It's been sliced and diced six ways from Sunday now. Guys have created spread sheets and excel documents, trying to explain what needs to happen in order for us to see an increase over our scheduled 4% raise on 9/1/23. Yet, there are still a special few, who refuse to acknowledge, this is not a "snap up". At the rate UAL and SW are going, their rates will weigh down the average and we will not see an increase on 9/1/23. Keep in mind, it takes a couple of months to go from AIP-TA-CBA. So if UAL, AA, SW don't have AIP's by 8/1/23....we can rest assured, we will not see an increase above 4%. Anything signed on 00:01 on 9/2/23, will not be counted in our Average up. You better believe the company will hold us to that. HeII, they'll probably argue that anything signed after 00:01 on 9/1/23 won't be counted since our raise takes effect at 00:00.
As has been stated many, many, times here, our first chance of seeing an increase over the 4% raise will be 9/1/24.
I do hold the NC and rest of the Union guys in high regard, but this was very poorly explained. some have told me that this was how the reps explained it to them.... I find it hard to believe a rep would purposefully mislead a pilot which makes me think the reps didn't fully understand the language. It's been sliced and diced six ways from Sunday now. Guys have created spread sheets and excel documents, trying to explain what needs to happen in order for us to see an increase over our scheduled 4% raise on 9/1/23. Yet, there are still a special few, who refuse to acknowledge, this is not a "snap up". At the rate UAL and SW are going, their rates will weigh down the average and we will not see an increase on 9/1/23. Keep in mind, it takes a couple of months to go from AIP-TA-CBA. So if UAL, AA, SW don't have AIP's by 8/1/23....we can rest assured, we will not see an increase above 4%. Anything signed on 00:01 on 9/2/23, will not be counted in our Average up. You better believe the company will hold us to that. HeII, they'll probably argue that anything signed after 00:01 on 9/1/23 won't be counted since our raise takes effect at 00:00.
As has been stated many, many, times here, our first chance of seeing an increase over the 4% raise will be 9/1/24.
SR captain sick calls just went WAY down. That won't help with FO staffing though.
02-02-2023, 09:18 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
It's astounding how misunderstood this, "Average Rate Adjustment", language is. I still fly with guys that think once DAL signs, we, "snap up", to their rate. They believe the look back, only includes newly signed CBA rates, excluding rates from companies that haven't signed new contracts. Now that JB has signed, ALL 5 AIRLINES ARE USED IN THE AVERAGE REGARDLESS OF HAVING A NEW OR OLD CBA IN PLACE. The look on their faces when I slowly read and explain the language is something to see.
I do hold the NC and rest of the Union guys in high regard, but this was very poorly explained. some have told me that this was how the reps explained it to them.... I find it hard to believe a rep would purposefully mislead a pilot which makes me think the reps didn't fully understand the language. It's been sliced and diced six ways from Sunday now. Guys have created spread sheets and excel documents, trying to explain what needs to happen in order for us to see an increase over our scheduled 4% raise on 9/1/23. Yet, there are still a special few, who refuse to acknowledge, this is not a "snap up". At the rate UAL and SW are going, their rates will weigh down the average and we will not see an increase on 9/1/23. Keep in mind, it takes a couple of months to go from AIP-TA-CBA. So if UAL, AA, SW don't have AIP's by 8/1/23....we can rest assured, we will not see an increase above 4%. Anything signed on 00:01 on 9/2/23, will not be counted in our Average up. You better believe the company will hold us to that. HeII, they'll probably argue that anything signed after 00:01 on 9/1/23 won't be counted since our raise takes effect at 00:00.
As has been stated many, many, times here, our first chance of seeing an increase over the 4% raise will be 9/1/24.
I do hold the NC and rest of the Union guys in high regard, but this was very poorly explained. some have told me that this was how the reps explained it to them.... I find it hard to believe a rep would purposefully mislead a pilot which makes me think the reps didn't fully understand the language. It's been sliced and diced six ways from Sunday now. Guys have created spread sheets and excel documents, trying to explain what needs to happen in order for us to see an increase over our scheduled 4% raise on 9/1/23. Yet, there are still a special few, who refuse to acknowledge, this is not a "snap up". At the rate UAL and SW are going, their rates will weigh down the average and we will not see an increase on 9/1/23. Keep in mind, it takes a couple of months to go from AIP-TA-CBA. So if UAL, AA, SW don't have AIP's by 8/1/23....we can rest assured, we will not see an increase above 4%. Anything signed on 00:01 on 9/2/23, will not be counted in our Average up. You better believe the company will hold us to that. HeII, they'll probably argue that anything signed after 00:01 on 9/1/23 won't be counted since our raise takes effect at 00:00.
As has been stated many, many, times here, our first chance of seeing an increase over the 4% raise will be 9/1/24.
NC actually played their hand really well.., wait for the magic!
Last edited by OTZeagle1; 02-02-2023 at 09:32 AM.
02-02-2023, 11:21 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by OTZeagle1
From what I am hearing, we will likely be snapping up to $333 mid spring. Then reviewed again on 9/1/2023.
NC actually played their hand really well.., wait for the magic!
NC actually played their hand really well.., wait for the magic!
02-02-2023, 11:58 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by GoodJet
So far the only improvements we will see are what we will get from the company to reduce attrition and staff our growth plans.
SR captain sick calls just went WAY down. That won't help with FO staffing though.
SR captain sick calls just went WAY down. That won't help with FO staffing though.
02-02-2023, 01:43 PM
#129
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Captain
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
I'll buy you a 5th of JW Black and a case of Red Stripe if that happens.
02-02-2023, 01:44 PM
#130
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Captain
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
It's a start but yeah, does nothing to keep sub 4/5 year pilots and that's the largest demographic leaving. Hopefully, this is a sign that management is coming to terms with reality.
