10 month upgrade
 

Despite what doom and gloomers have repeatedly said about a 5 year upgrade, left seat is now under a year with 7/21 hires getting captain.

more a symptom of a horrible seniority imbalance from micro bases, inability to commute to junior schedules, and bad reserve rules more than signs of strong growth and opportunity for all. not everyone is willing to uproot everything and move to ATW. Those who are reap incredible opportunity, that’s undeniable.

Tell the whole story….there are a few outlier very junior CA’s in the small city snowbelt micro bases like ATW, DSM, FNT, ABE. Any place remotely desirable currently is running 5 years min. for junior CA.

Allegiant can be a fantastic career airline if you’re willing to move to a micro base. If you try to commute or are stuck on only living in Florida, Vegas, AZ, etc. then will not be a career airline. Maybe a quick type rating but that’s it.

Anybody looking to come here should be willing to work/live wherever the opportunity is otherwise it will be low pay and poor poor lifestyle.

The whole, whole story is that junior upgrade is about to become a base 40 miles south of Deltas second most senior base… perhaps even street hire.

I'm sure Delta appreciates Allegiant training their future new hires. Other than that they couldn't care less about Allegiant or Breeze setting up shop in PVU. They don't make money off leisure travelers like we do and SLC isn't a major O&D location for them, it's a connecting hub. We're a mosquito on their arm.

UVU is also in Provo and it's become quite a puppy mill for pilots. Sounds like G4 just gave them a great path to Delta actually.

Not even sure what base seniority at Delta has to do with anything.

That’s a fool’s errand, prepare to be displaced into the big bases. So, nothing different being at G4, you’ll be flexed or flexible whether you want to be or not. Most micro mid-continent bases won’t be here in a year. For many reasons the micro small base strategy is going to die. Plan B.

I wasn’t trying to say Allegiant would compete with Delta, just that we would have a junior upgrade/ street hire in what most people and airline pilots would consider a “desirable” place to live.

most people here are saying we only have quick upgrades in crappy Midwest towns, but the whole sorry is bigger than that.

I agree Allegiant PVU and Delta SLC have no overlap except pilots at both places get to live in The mountains. Delta is the only one that can afford ski in ski out though.

Both of those 7/21 upgrades were in my class. One lives in Vegas, and the other lives near Atlanta, and they both bid ATW to upgrade.

Quick upgrade at Delta is in NYC, quick upgrade at UA is in SFO and EWR. Big city life with 7 figure homes, or small town life with cheap cost of living and poor weather. (If you want to commute there is no reason to work at Allegiant in the first place). Take your pick if you want a quick upgrade at any airline.

True, but you gotta get the call first. And I ain’t no apologist for it all, but the QOL is great for the flexible here.

Butttttttttttttttt if that call came, the future of G4 is so volatile, and not in the way that favors being a pilot here. I hope they get their poop in a group, but it may not happen in a while. Lots of great pilots here.

I doubt even 15% of pilots upgrading at DL or UA in SFO or the NYC area are driving to work. Those pilots are commuting to work. Even on those big rates SFO and NYC is exceedingly expensive. A 7 figure home there is 2100 square feet lol.

But that is the bonus of working there: commuting is possible without completely sacrificing your qol. Also don’t kid yourself, those places are not offering 7 month upgrades.

How much time have you spent in Provo? Unless you're a Mormon or a ski bunny it's a backwater dive. There's a reason why we see the same professors from the Y every week commuting between LAX and PVU. It ain't because it's an awesome place to live.

I’m betting most would prefer it to our swath of rustbelt bases in the north-central northeast. If I’m getting junior assigned I’ll take PVU over ATW, FNT, etc….

If you are looking in Provo, you clearly aren’t familiar with the area. Try Park City, Midway, Heber, LCC or BCC. There is a reason SLC and DEN are senior at every airline that has bases in those locations. Not everyone loves old people, humidity and Ronny boy.

Reasons I don’t trust Marg…. Their tastes sucks

[QUOTE=Margaritaville;3428818] it's a backwater dive. It ain't because it's an awesome place to live.[/QUOTE

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobs...ah-escape/amp/

[QUOTE=310skying;3429027]Reasons I don’t trust Marg…. Their tastes sucks

Agree, very nice place with beautiful lakes and mountains. Worst drivers on the planet though.

[QUOTE=310skying;3429027]Reasons I don’t trust Marg…. Their tastes sucks

That article was from 2016... a quick google search shows that housing and and migration to provo has skyrocketed since the pandemic. Marg is off base here, lots of folks aren't crazy about the desert or florida and would like some mountains and a traditional four seasons of weather. PVU checks a lot of those boxes. I would be pretty surprised if PVU became a revolving door like FNT, ABE, etc.

[QUOTE=captnate702;3429074]Agreed, junior to start but a quick stabilization.

Hey to each their own. Enjoy the desert. I've tried it out. Boats ain't too useful there. I'm good right here in Florida.

And yeah at least it's better than FNT or ABE.

Yeah don’t know what you’re talking about. I know plenty of people who wouldn’t open the newspaper to see Florida sink into the ocean. Big difference between PVU and the desert as it’s the edge of the Great Basin. Much different than IWA/LAS

Provo is actually a pretty awesome area. Nothing is forcing you to live in town, south SLC is 30 mins or less away. World class skiing 50 mins, plenty of lakes hiking and low crime.

It would be just as easy to jump on Florida and claim it is a humid, uncultured, flat, swamp state where a sizable amount of people are on meth or elderly, often both. Plenty of of people still choose to live there, and whatever makes people happy is a simple matter of preference. I don’t think PVU will take long to fill out.

Being serious for a moment, it will probably be like all the other new bases. CAs super senior at the top and super junior at the bottom with new hire FOs.

What is time to get AUS base as an FO? And how quick is upgrade possible at the ABE base?

6 months AUS fo. 3 years ABE ca.

Keep in mind that all it takes is one or two pilots to be ahead of you and you can’t get in for a year. 1-2 pilots not upgrade and you won’t have movement or with how attrition is the company won’t backfill.


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Or is everyone leaving…..what is the message du jour? 🙄

Anyone have any updates how long it takes to upgrade in any base?

The latest vacancy bid has 0 captain vacancies. They also said not to except any upgrades on the Jan vacancy bid which is effective June 2023. That means that all those Captain backfills that were left unfilled for the last 9 months and were suppose to be filled again for the busy 2023 summer aren't happening. This really should be the first warning sign that downgrades could actually happen if we keep losing FO's.

To answer your question the most junior CA is a July 2021 hire (ATW), the second most junior CA in the company is a Feb 2020 hire (DSM). I would expect upgrade to slow as the list shrinks.
Most junior CA in a few different bases: SFB Sept 2014 hire, ABE Jan 2020, TYS Dec 2016, BLI April 2011, CVG Aug 2016.

What happens when you can’t hire enough FO’s offset attrition and have too many captains? That may be the situation soon to be faced.

They will either cut the capacity to match the FO staffing level (further driving up CASM due to inefficiency), displace, or come to their senses and get real with negotiations.

pick the most illogical option and expect that to happen.

truth
…..

Hopefully it's the last one, bc if they displace many will absolutely bolt.Then shrinking will be all that's left.

it will absolutely be the final straw for many and will send shockwaves up and down the list.

Amen brother. I pray it doesn't come down to that. Lets hope for the best.

I don’t know that it will. I think everyone knew the deal at Allegiant when they were hired or are senior enough to have figured it out. There might be a quick bump in guys leaving but it will barely be two digit numbers. I think perhaps 20ish might decide to leave. I’m just thinking most people are at Allegiant for a reason… a reason that probably won’t be changed by anything we are discussing.

that thing your talking about is the senior guys doing the long 2 legs on Sunday Monday, and Thursday and having the rest off. Once staffing goes out the window and they have to 4 leg it they will retire or look elsewhere. Lineholders being pushed to reserve in for Florida due to staffing know what it’s like on reserve and don’t wanna limo around the Florida swamps will have a decision to make. It takes 2 FO’s to replace a CA (one FO to upgrade and one new FO for the old FO) and right now CA’s are leaving with no upgrade classes and no new FO’s. It’s the last week before Christmas and hopefully we hear something this week because if not we won’t till next year.

New vacancy bid shows 3 CA slots here’s the image showing current upgrade hire dates.

I wouldn’t get your hopes to upgrade anytime soon.