Sliceback

Quag - a guy asked my opinion about CLT vs DFW. I said CLT for the first ten years, DFW for the last ten years. It was based on the number of guys retiring, left in the base at year X, and the type of flying his seniority would hold.

Here's the unknown, CLT will not have the value that DFW will have as those young CLT guys age. Some will commute and some will decide to move as they evaluate what they can fly, at what age, in the different bases. When they got hired DFW and Asia flying wasn't an option just like CLT, PHX, or PHL wasn't an option for LAA pilots.

The data I posted isn't perfect. A good example is LAX 777 FO seniority. The LAX 787 is almost two years more senior. Will guys reevaluate the value of the 777 vs 787 flying in the future and the 777 gradually becomes a year more senior while the 787 gets a year more junior? That's why I say it's just a snapshot and a lot can, and will, change. Just retiring 767's and replacing them with G4 a/c will make the w/b flying more senior. G3 is only about 4% more pay than G2. G4 is about 19%. A 19% increase, and the quality of the airframe, gets guys to move that a 4% pay increase, but reduced relative seniority, doesn't.

Sliceback

Free opinion/advice. Worth every penny you're being charged. ;-)

1. IMO DFW. Yeah, it's Texas. But for the price of a LAX house, or less, you can live 15-20 minutes from the airport. Your wife can literally pick you up and drop you off while running errands "Princess parking" - you don't park, Princess picks you up. And time zone was the farther east you go the better the industry is. Early east coast flights are brutal for west coast guys, AM departures on the west coast are easy for east coast guys.

2. Go read any of the other airline specific sections. They're complaining about something. Here's my pecking order for jobs -

a. Get hired by someone. If you have two offers you get to pick.

b. Living in base is MUCH better but there's a family value to consider living near family. That decision matrix is between you and your wife but the job is MUCH better living in base, especially a junior w/b base. The difference between the junior and senior base can be like being at two different airlines.

A couple of years ago a guy quit DL to go to UA after a couple of years. The decision, while not the best financially, was simple - living at home vs commuting for 30 years. Make the best analysis you can based on the data you have, make a choice, and don't play "if only I'd done...." That will drive you nuts. Any choice amongst the major airlines will be a fine career, just some will be better. Happy with what you got? Or always checking out someone else's grass, wife, car or house? Some guys have gotten the short end of the stick and are happy. Others have had a great career and are miserable.

3. PBS gives you more of the days off that you'd prefer. Online there's a lot of complaints. In person it's completely the opposite, guys are saying they're doing fine.

Weekends off? Commuter or living in base? In base you can bid rsv. As a commuter many guys prefer holding a line, which as a junior guy means more weekends, or only bidding LC (long call) rsv. In base you can bid SC rsv which gives you another bite at the apple to get weekend days off on rsv.

Junior guys on the 320 in LGA got 1-3 weekends days off. Guys at approx. 6 months LOS got 1-7 weekend (of 10) days off. At a year rsv guys on the 320 in LGA got 4-9 days off. Obviously they're bidding for different days off.

DFW weekend days off at the one year mark? You'd be too junior to get to DFW.

LAX at six month LOS? 1, 1, 2, 5, 7 of 10 weekend days off. They probably got more weekend days off by not asking for other specific, midweek, days off.

4. Vacation is bid base on your January bid status. You'll be 220/248, or 53/58, etc. You can make 'end of month/beginning of month' mini vacations. Ask for as many days off in the end of one month and as many days as possible in the beginning of the next month. Eight to 12 days off is a possibility every other month. But by doing that you're ability to hold weekend days off goes way down. It's a choice.

5. $385 for spouse + family. Highest cost option because it gives the greatest choice.


JetBlue contract comparison -

http://www3.alpa.org/portals/alpa/jetblue2/files/JetBlue%20Contract%20Comparison%20March%202015L%20-%20web.pdf

Mover

Not sure where you got this data, but LAX is more junior than DFW by a significant amount. You can easily get LAX within the first year. DFW is 18+ months out.

TrollingForFish

Here is my math for retirements/seniority. Granted its AA vs. DAL and I understand the question was versus SWA, but that's not a choice I'm faced with.

nimslow

I think Slice got everything in his above post. I'll second, that living in a junior base is the best thing you can do to make your quality of life better at this job.

I'm one of the very junior guys to get 737 Captain in LGA on our last bid. After 25 years of living in DFW, we have decided it's time to "pull chocks" and move. If I can hold MIA before too long, we are headed to FL, otherwise, Bucks County PA, here we come. My seniority will be much better till the end of my career east of the big D.

Reserve isn't a bad deal here, if you can drive to the airport. Commuting to reserve sucks.

PRS Guitars

I'll give you that driving will always beat flying to work, but commuting to long call is not bad at all here. If you don't care to move to a base, it's a viable option. I have a 3 hour flight and go from Mountain time to Eastern time and am nearly always able to commute in same day on long call reserve. You just have to go ugly early and proffer for a commuteable trip when you know that you're going to get tagged anyway.

Right now in PBS, I just went senior enough to get any day off I want on LCR, vs working on every day I want off as a line holder. I'm working less and really enjoying the job a lot more now.

Edit: there are much much better resources out there for seeing your place in the bucket than the crappy enhanced reserve display. Don't want to advertise the site without the webmasters consent. But PM me for info

viper548

I'm based in PHX and was used every day on LC last month. I actually spent more time at home when I was based in CLT commuting from CA.

aa73

^^^ Bingo... Commuting to Long Call Reserve is almost exactly like commuting to a line. 99.9% of the time you get assigned your trip at 10am home base time the day before. It is definitely not a bad deal at all. I actually have more days at home than I ever did driving to work when based here (not being used every day of LC.)

Sliceback

I replied that it was junior shifted for n/b and senior shifter for w/b. Off the top of my head reply. That was comparing LAX to DFW.

Overall LAX is more senior (ie it's not amongst the junior most bases - LGA/MIA/PHL) but it's not as bad as it has been in the past. N/b LAX is junior to DFW. And a generic 'more junior/senior' might apply at the margins but not at specific seniority ranges. And with PHX guys considering the LAX w/b flying there's a chance LAX becomes more senior due it's proximity to PHX. We'll see over the next couple of years as LUS/LAA/AWA guys start shifting between bases. So today's snapshot might be different in the next couple of years.

Sliceback

Snaplock - here's why SW isn't a competitive option for you *IF* you don't live in a SW base (corrections always welcome) -

Relative seniority based on retirements (end of year)-

SW AA

2018 98 95
2019 96 91
2020 94 85

2021 92 80
2022 90 74 junior CA upgrade at AA
2023 87 68
2024 84 61
2025 80 55

2026 76 49
2027 71 44 SW upgrade assuming 75% = upgrade?
2028 66 40
2029 62 35
2030 57 32

2031 53 28
2032 48 25
2033 44 21
2034 39 19
2035 34 17

2036 29 15
2037 25 13


That's the total comparison AA n/b + w/b vs SW. Here's some n/b only comparisons -

2027 71% 44% SW upgrade at 75%? Roughly 50% of n/b FO's?

2027 AA n/b only FO data - 4% overall. #1 in 320 JFK/MIA/LAX. Top 2% in DFW. Top 7% in CLT.

2027 - AA n/b FO - 4% SW - 50%?
2027 - AA n/b CA - 72% SW - 95%?

2032 48% 25% n/b only at AA? 16%. n/b CA? 32%. Anyone have what percentage CA the 48% of the total list is at SW?

2037 25% 13% 5% on n/b only. Top 11% of n/b CA's. Top 9% on the 320. SW is probably 25% of CA's list.


AA's n/b pilot corps is about 400 guys (737/320/S80) larger than SW's. AA's has more n/b international flying vs SW's larger domestic flying.

I looked at someone else's projections. He'd retire around #60 at SW or #250 at AA. But if he stayed n/b at AA he'd retire as #12. Take out the mgt/CKA/MDSB and he'd be #4.

So when you compare AA vs SW you can compare n/b vs n/b if you really thing you won't fly w/b.

You mentioned that you'd be a a QOL guy. Someone mentioned in a different post that there's no LC at SW. If that's true that might be a huge difference depending upon how SW assigns trips and what your base availability is on reserve.

Other QOL comments - very few guys put QOL first for their entire career. Lots of guys are QOL, until they see that they can fly X, or to Y, for X dollars or perhaps X hours less time away from home. So they trade the ability to hold a better vacation, or perhaps the holidays off, because the Cray super computer evaluating "QOL" runs a different program as seniority, or home life, changes.

And giving up $$$ is a QOL hit. At X $$$'s the Cray super computer reevaluates the QOL analysis. G2 vs G3 is approx. 5% more. Meh. G2 to G4 is approx. 20%. Or G2 FO to G2 CA is 40-45% pay raise if they can hold a line. It's a 35% pay raise to go from G2 FO line holder to G2 rsv CA. Money talks. It has for centuries.