Avg Calendar Day, LOS approved
01-17-2018, 05:33 PM
#311
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by jcountry
Dude.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
01-17-2018, 05:42 PM
#312
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,180
Originally Posted by aa73
Disagree. A lot of fuss over stuff that’s barely going to change. This is the result of a lot of misinformation and fear spread (mostly) by the Clt and Phl reps.
The 5:15 ACD not being implemented is not at all a function of the monetary penalty, but rather the ramifications of what happens if they don’t: the operation will fall apart when APA pulls another September to remember. And they do NOT want to go down that road. For such a big QOL item to not be implemented will have severe consequences, and they know it. That is also a baseless fear.
To quote somebody from c&r who said it best:
“The LOS guys will be restored. Junior guys wont have to endure slash trips. Domestic guys will work fewer days. Scheduling practices will remain the same. But guys will continue to *****. Cause thats what they do......”
Effectively, We just gained huge QOL increases outside of S6. And no the sky is not falling.
The 5:15 ACD not being implemented is not at all a function of the monetary penalty, but rather the ramifications of what happens if they don’t: the operation will fall apart when APA pulls another September to remember. And they do NOT want to go down that road. For such a big QOL item to not be implemented will have severe consequences, and they know it. That is also a baseless fear.
To quote somebody from c&r who said it best:
“The LOS guys will be restored. Junior guys wont have to endure slash trips. Domestic guys will work fewer days. Scheduling practices will remain the same. But guys will continue to *****. Cause thats what they do......”
Effectively, We just gained huge QOL increases outside of S6. And no the sky is not falling.
I started hear more and more compelling reasons why this was a good thing, with evidence to back them up (AW and DS podcasts) and yet the CLT/PHL was the same thing just repeated at a higher volume.
It was obvious to me that the theory of "Whoever Is The Loudest Is The Most Correct" was well in play on that call as ES, BF and PD kept blasting my ear drums.
01-17-2018, 05:48 PM
#313
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by jcountry
Dude.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
ACD of 5:15 isn’t a QOL increase? Okkkkk. This is absolutely huge for QOL.
We had ~75 guys who were awarded 21 days of work a few months back. Now those guys will fly 16.
I know you hate APA but a win is a win.
01-17-2018, 05:48 PM
#314
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Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Originally Posted by aa73
Is that so... let’s see, with 5:15 ACD we are going to be home more and yet earn more pay on trips that previously paid less. I’d call that a pretty big QOL gain... so does every other airline pilot that has it. Who’s ****ed Up here?
My concerns are with R.O. and the other scheduling provisions. That stuff is actually far worse. If the trip goes to hell, so will your off days.
Plus, the company is VERY creative in the way they avoid paying for any kind of soft time. I submit for you-all nighters. With this contract, those were supposed to pay well. When's the last time you actually saw any?
the company will just figure out some way to turn these damned things into crap 4 or 5 days, and when RO kicks in, we will be at min days off. Yeah. Super QOL improvements.
01-17-2018, 05:49 PM
#315
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by Saabs
To be fair you’re very isolated on the RJ. RO happens enough on the baby bus to warrant being worried about it.
The real issue is wtf is a DFP after an RO and why aren’t all days off equal? That’s what needs to be fixed.
The real issue is wtf is a DFP after an RO and why aren’t all days off equal? That’s what needs to be fixed.
Isolated? Nope I’m all over LGA, DCA and BOS.
01-17-2018, 05:51 PM
#316
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by jcountry
Dude.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
If you think these are QOL increases, your thought processes are very seriously ****ed up. This thing des absolutely nothing good for QOL.
And let’s not forget that yes LUS didn’t have RO, but...you were only pay protected for the last sequence of the month, so if any other sequence canceled, you got nothing. That was ridiculous.
01-17-2018, 05:59 PM
#317
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Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Originally Posted by PRS Guitars
I’ve been mainly against this deal and then back and forth a bit, but on balance, yes this will likely be an increase in QOL, by eliminating or at least paying a slash trip better. PHL and CLT reps started really reaching by claiming that ACD would be a bad thing. That’s where they lost credibility with me. I just don’t buy it. Then when they claimed the tax bonus would also be tied to LOS, that was a bridge too far for me. Those guys have some valid points but are crooked politicians at heart who will say anything to support their agenda (ends justify the means)...
And let’s not forget that yes LUS didn’t have RO, but...you were only pay protected for the last sequence of the month, so if any other sequence canceled, you got nothing. That was ridiculous.
And let’s not forget that yes LUS didn’t have RO, but...you were only pay protected for the last sequence of the month, so if any other sequence canceled, you got nothing. That was ridiculous.
Can't they just turn all slash trips into 4 days or 5 days?
I would MUCH rather fly 12 regular red eyes vs one of those God-awful 4 days which ends with a red eye. Those damned things are evil!
And will we actually get ACD? The penalty for non-implementation is far cheaper than the cost. And did the union get less than 30% float-so we won't have to wait a whole year (for it to not be implemented anyhow?)
This agreement is crap. A good negotiator would have walked away.
01-17-2018, 06:07 PM
#319
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by jcountry
I hope it works out that way.
My concerns are with R.O. and the other scheduling provisions. That stuff is actually far worse. If the trip goes to hell, so will your off days.
Plus, the company is VERY creative in the way they avoid paying for any kind of soft time. I submit for you-all nighters. With this contract, those were supposed to pay well. When's the last time you actually saw any?
the company will just figure out some way to turn these damned things into crap 4 or 5 days, and when RO kicks in, we will be at min days off. Yeah. Super QOL improvements.
My concerns are with R.O. and the other scheduling provisions. That stuff is actually far worse. If the trip goes to hell, so will your off days.
Plus, the company is VERY creative in the way they avoid paying for any kind of soft time. I submit for you-all nighters. With this contract, those were supposed to pay well. When's the last time you actually saw any?
the company will just figure out some way to turn these damned things into crap 4 or 5 days, and when RO kicks in, we will be at min days off. Yeah. Super QOL improvements.
Couple of things.
1) We’ve always had RO since the JCBA and very little of that will change, with the exception of it going to electorinic notifications (a plus, since it won’t allow them to interpret it how they see fit, it’ll go by the book)
2) Delta, United also have their own forms of RO. It is a legacy airline industry standard. You guys at LUS were lucky not to have any.
Bottom line, in my opinion.. we will have very little negative impact in exchange for A LOT of positive impact.
And two less big items to have to bargain for in S6 openers.
01-17-2018, 06:14 PM
#320
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Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by jcountry
I would MUCH rather fly 12 regular red eyes vs one of those God-awful 4 days which ends with a red eye. Those damned things are evil!
And will we actually get ACD? The penalty for non-implementation is far cheaper than the cost. And did the union get less than 30% float-so we won't have to wait a whole year (for it to not be implemented anyhow)
To the latter...I predict that they will implement it, I just don’t see much benefit to the company if the don’t. They gave us an 8% pay raise for nothing, why would they drag their feet after agreeing to this?
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