ALPA card drive is underway!!!
06-09-2018, 05:01 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,091
My personal opinion is unions tend to get in the way and often hurt their members more in some cases. But for us the overriding net benefit is positive.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
06-09-2018, 06:20 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by Name User
My personal opinion is unions tend to get in the way and often hurt their members more in some cases. But for us the overriding net benefit is positive.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
Please don’t bring logic and reason into this. K thx
06-09-2018, 07:52 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Originally Posted by Route66
So just answer Union or company:
1 who gave us profit sharing?
2 who gave us pay raises last year?
1 who gave us profit sharing?
2 who gave us pay raises last year?
06-09-2018, 08:01 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Originally Posted by Name User
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
Originally Posted by Name User
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
One thing that appears democratic, but I think causes problems is membership electing the APA President. In ALPA the reps elect the MEC officers that creates a more cohesive leadership unit. I assume the membership also would recall the President. How does that work?
06-09-2018, 01:31 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 321
Route 66
The company gave us the $1000. I would argue the rest was a direct result of the constant pressure from the union to the company. In the absence of a union he would have never offered those items. Say what you want about Carey but he gets actual results outside of Section 6. Despite USAPAs tough guy rhetoric after years you were still making 124/hour as a 320 captain or 160/hour as a 330 CA. I would take APA over USAPA any day of the week.
Some of the above is debatable. Where you truly fail in the critical reasoning department is your assertion that we would somehow be better off without a union. I’m guessing you a management troll. If you are for real then go on C&R and tell everyone we are better off being non union.
The company gave us the $1000. I would argue the rest was a direct result of the constant pressure from the union to the company. In the absence of a union he would have never offered those items. Say what you want about Carey but he gets actual results outside of Section 6. Despite USAPAs tough guy rhetoric after years you were still making 124/hour as a 320 captain or 160/hour as a 330 CA. I would take APA over USAPA any day of the week.
Some of the above is debatable. Where you truly fail in the critical reasoning department is your assertion that we would somehow be better off without a union. I’m guessing you a management troll. If you are for real then go on C&R and tell everyone we are better off being non union.
06-09-2018, 04:03 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by Name User
My personal opinion is unions tend to get in the way and often hurt their members more in some cases. But for us the overriding net benefit is positive.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
We have a lot of blowhards running the union and interfacing directly with the company. A good example are the East reps and some of the APA reps.
The APA in general comes off as incredibly disorganized with each base rep blasting about his own opinions on subjects many of which end up being completely wrong. These are the people deciding our fate?
I don't know the specifics of how Carey is using union funds. On the surface the optics are very bad. But what I do like about him is he seems to actually attempt amicable conversations with the execs. I've never liked a contentious relationship with management, it's not good for either group.
I can see where Route66 is coming from however he has the pilots at APA to thank for his massive pay raises who brought the company to its knees in just a few days during the bankruptcy LBFO 2. Without that seat at bankruptcy court Parker would've run right over all of labor and extracted even more benefits for himself, his team, and the unsecured creditors.
LAA wanted Parker at all cost to preserve the pension. That is a fact. Parker certainly sweetened the deal and the USAPA political affairs committee in DC was going to oppose the merger without being included in it. Yeah, you got green book cash, but except for the pension, you got more cash but the company got much more in productivity, hence the poor contract language. If your senior you don’t care about the contract language because you get your first picks. The junior guys get screwed in the process.
Amicable conversations with the execs? Heck, I see that in the crew news all the time. It’s not the presidents job to negotiate contract amendments behind the negotiating committees back but he does it anyway.
Labor HAD to have a seat at the BK....by law. LAA didn’t want Horton running the Company. Didn’t trust him, didn’t like him, didn’t believe him.....who cares. It was Parker or no one. Give us the pensions and screw the rest of the pilots. That’s the FACT. ALL BEHIND THE UNIONS AT US AIRWAYS BACKS. Period. Thank YOU for the pay raises? H—l, without us you would no better than two thirds the size of DAL, UAL and SWA at best. Remember the road shows? I still have the presentations if you want me to post them.
Your post has many contradictions in it. I believe you have doubts about the union itself. Be careful, you could be labeled anti-union if you don’t agree with livetofly.
Truth and history hurts. Our union history in particular hurts worst. Nevertheless when 2020 comes around we’ll get a raise, it just won’t be what the rest of the industry gets.
06-09-2018, 04:09 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by Laker24
Route 66
The company gave us the $1000. I would argue the rest was a direct result of the constant pressure from the union to the company. In the absence of a union he would have never offered those items. Say what you want about Carey but he gets actual results outside of Section 6. Despite USAPAs tough guy rhetoric after years you were still making 124/hour as a 320 captain or 160/hour as a 330 CA. I would take APA over USAPA any day of the week.
Some of the above is debatable. Where you truly fail in the critical reasoning department is your assertion that we would somehow be better off without a union. I’m guessing you a management troll. If you are for real then go on C&R and tell everyone we are better off being non union.
The company gave us the $1000. I would argue the rest was a direct result of the constant pressure from the union to the company. In the absence of a union he would have never offered those items. Say what you want about Carey but he gets actual results outside of Section 6. Despite USAPAs tough guy rhetoric after years you were still making 124/hour as a 320 captain or 160/hour as a 330 CA. I would take APA over USAPA any day of the week.
Some of the above is debatable. Where you truly fail in the critical reasoning department is your assertion that we would somehow be better off without a union. I’m guessing you a management troll. If you are for real then go on C&R and tell everyone we are better off being non union.
Your management troll is wrong. TWA guys are against you. Many of us US Airways guys are against you. Many of your reps are against you. APA management is against you. And I’m the management troll.
You don’t need me to c—p in your bed, the LAA pilots do enough of that already. You know, the gift (for management) that keeps on giving.
06-10-2018, 06:05 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
Originally Posted by Route66
LAA wanted Parker at all cost to preserve the pension. That is a fact. Parker certainly sweetened the deal and the USAPA political affairs committee in DC was going to oppose the merger without being included in it. Yeah, you got green book cash, but except for the pension, you got more cash but the company got much more in productivity, hence the poor contract language. If your senior you don’t care about the contract language because you get your first picks. The junior guys get screwed in the process.
Labor HAD to have a seat at the BK....by law. Give us the pensions and screw the rest of the pilots. That’s the FACT. ALL BEHIND THE UNIONS AT US AIRWAYS BACKS. Period. Thank YOU for the pay raises? H—l, without us you would no better than two thirds the size of DAL, UAL and SWA at best. Remember the road shows?
Labor HAD to have a seat at the BK....by law. Give us the pensions and screw the rest of the pilots. That’s the FACT. ALL BEHIND THE UNIONS AT US AIRWAYS BACKS. Period. Thank YOU for the pay raises? H—l, without us you would no better than two thirds the size of DAL, UAL and SWA at best. Remember the road shows?
The fact is that the APA had to expend little negotiating capital thanks to the PBGC Director Joshua Gotbaum willingness to fight the grossly unnecessary effort to distressed-terminate the LAA pensions.
http://www.pionline.com/article/2012...nkruptcy-fight
There was no chance the distressed-terminated LCC pensions were going to be restored. If something like that were possible the Delta pilots certainly would have done it during their merger. Again, your rantings bear little resemblance to reality. Your erroneous assertions are in desperate need of evidence that doesn't exist. Your cognitive dissonance must be unbearable.
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