Route66

How come you guys don’t try to keep up on current events? For the American guys(and only the American guys) why don’t you go to the latest 20Dec2018 crew news and listen to #4 on the list. He will explain Project Ivan.

That’s all I’ll say. And that about sums up what your up against in 2020.

Smoke Toliet

[QUOTE=Mover;2623890]This is a very public message board. Why not keep this list where it originated?

By discussing/debating/etc. this out and the open, we're tipping our hand (especially as the public discussion continues) as to what we'll accept, thus negotiating against ourselves.

It doesn’t make a differerance whether it’s public or not, they are very sharp when it comes to knowing what we want in a contract. APA has had its ass handed to them multiple times. There’s no sneak attack coming. It’s better to get this info out in the open and educate our guys how far behind me are. That actually might motivate our guys. Right now USAir captains are just happy making more then $128 a hr and the almighty nAAtives still think they are the greatest. Both need to open there eyes.

mainlineAF

Listening to that segment sure made me feel better about the debt load AA carries.

Reminds me why i don’t listen to the expert financial/business advice of most pilots.

Cheddar

Exactly this.



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flydc

Cheddar, I appreciate what you’re doing here. Ignore the naysayers.

Cheddar

Thanks - to Movers’ credit - there was a document created several months (a year?) ago on a FB group that I’m (as are the other contributors) a member of. While that document is good - its not mine to post or discuss and that is where I think the confusion comes in. The one that is posted here is completely different and was also posted to the FB group the other day.

This “list” came from a long text chain from guys in my squadron that was more of a “AYFKM - our contract is this bad?!?” That transformed to me getting bored one day and asking all my buddies what we’d like to see. I mentioned some of these ideas to APA ‘insiders’ - and although well intended, we got the typical answer.

So, we (well I) went to the APA contract comparison tables and several newer TA’s from “lesser companies” and was quite surprised as to what is out there, and what might be achievable. So all of our “wants and needs” became more focused with what I and the others truly think is achievable.

The ultimate goal was information to us, and to be able to send stuff to anyone that would listen.

As one of the posters (and list contributors) here said best while we were having an adult beverage is quite simply: this is our multi-million dollar business and we need to invest in it in as much as we can. With that in mind, cut and paste if you like, if not send in your own ideas (they’re probably better) but do something!


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Cheddar

Also,

Feel free to use this or post this wherever ever. It’s just our idea of a much better contract, so the more it’s spread the better chance it gets some traction. That being said, I won’t debate other people’s ideas (many are probably better that we haven’t thought out as all 5 year and below guys) or what I’m willing to give up to get stuff. That to me would be negotiating against ourselves and tipping off the company.

Consider me closer to a FUPM guy when it comes to C2020. I know what we are worth, and it’s a lot.

Laker24

You should run for office. It’s been said many times APA needs some new blood with higher expectations.

Route66

I was referring to how DP was able to increase the pay WITHOUT THE UNION. Project Ivan. The point: THE UNION DIDNT NEGOTIATE THE PAY RAISES.

The debt explanation certainly helps.

SilverandSore

Where in the hell do I find this again?