China Service
#14
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 536
There are zero, I repeat zero, requirements to keep any JV growth flying in house.
#15
Do you think AA has JV Scope? Why do all these AA pilots think APA has JV protections in the JCBA? The JV section is one paragraph long and it basically says we get to meet with management quarterly and ask nicely for some of the flying to go to mainline. Management will consider our input.
There are zero, I repeat zero, requirements to keep any JV growth flying in house.
There are zero, I repeat zero, requirements to keep any JV growth flying in house.
Read scope section K. There are substantial restraints. (It’s better than Delta) as a matter of fact.. if INTL flying hours fall enough, APA has to concur for codesharing with specific airlines to even continue.
#16
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 536
You highlight my point. Even informed AA pilots do not understand our JV scope limits. Imagine if Parker could buy unlimited RJs as long as he kept the mainline at present size. He could eventually have 2000 RJ's and 950 mainline jets (exaggeration to prove the point). That is how our JV agreement is written on the international side. Read it! As long as we maintain our historical international flying they can do whatever they want with new flying.
even more depressing look up the penalties for not maintaining international block hours. It takes forever and is full of loop holes.
Last edited by AAL24; 07-09-2019 at 11:57 AM.
#17
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 536
it's all based on previous years baseline flying..
4. International Flying Below 90% and/or 80% of the Baseline in 2014 and Beyond.
On January 1, 2015 and on January 1 of each year thereafter, the International Baseline as calculated on the preceding January 1 shall be compared to the total block hours of International Flying scheduled by the Company during the preceding 12 months.
JCBA Rev.1
a.
b.
If the Company's scheduled International Flying is below 90% of the previous year's International Baseline, the Company shall have until the succeeding January 1 to cure that deficiency by increasing total scheduled block hours of International Flying to the level that would have met that 90% threshold. If the Company’s scheduled International Flying during that additional 12 months does not increase to this required level, then the Association's concurrence shall be required for the Company to enter into new international codesharing agreements whether to place the Company’s code on a Foreign Carrier’s flights or to carry a Foreign Carrier’s code on a Company flight.
If the Company’s scheduled International Flying is below 80% of the previous year’s International Baseline, the Company shall have until the succeeding January 1 to cure that deficiency by increasing total block hours back to the level that would have been required to meet that 80% threshold. If the Company’s scheduled International Flying during that additional 12 months does not increase to this required level, then the Association's concurrence shall be required for renewal or continuation of all codesharing agreements whether to place the Company’s code on a Foreign Carrier’s flights or to carry a Foreign Carrier’s code on a Company flight, with the exception of those specifically listed below:
4. International Flying Below 90% and/or 80% of the Baseline in 2014 and Beyond.
On January 1, 2015 and on January 1 of each year thereafter, the International Baseline as calculated on the preceding January 1 shall be compared to the total block hours of International Flying scheduled by the Company during the preceding 12 months.
JCBA Rev.1
a.
b.
If the Company's scheduled International Flying is below 90% of the previous year's International Baseline, the Company shall have until the succeeding January 1 to cure that deficiency by increasing total scheduled block hours of International Flying to the level that would have met that 90% threshold. If the Company’s scheduled International Flying during that additional 12 months does not increase to this required level, then the Association's concurrence shall be required for the Company to enter into new international codesharing agreements whether to place the Company’s code on a Foreign Carrier’s flights or to carry a Foreign Carrier’s code on a Company flight.
If the Company’s scheduled International Flying is below 80% of the previous year’s International Baseline, the Company shall have until the succeeding January 1 to cure that deficiency by increasing total block hours back to the level that would have been required to meet that 80% threshold. If the Company’s scheduled International Flying during that additional 12 months does not increase to this required level, then the Association's concurrence shall be required for renewal or continuation of all codesharing agreements whether to place the Company’s code on a Foreign Carrier’s flights or to carry a Foreign Carrier’s code on a Company flight, with the exception of those specifically listed below:
#18
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 536
I. Joint Ventures
1. The parties agree to work toward a fair allocation of flying for the Company in Joint Business Agreements ("JBAs"). The Association has the right to review JBAs and any material changes going forward. During the parties' Quarterly Scope meetings, the Company will discuss and receive input from the Association regarding current and anticipated JBAs.
#20
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 536
I'm surprised that we limit Rj's to a percentage of mainline yet our JV flying could be many times larger than our in house flying. We cap RJ growth without a corresponding growth in mainline. Parker couldn't order 1000 new Rj's and keep the mainline fleet at 950+- yet he could start hundreds of new international JV routes and have no obligation to increase AA international in the slightest. Seems like a massive oversight by the scope committee. I'm a pessimist but I don't think the QANTAS JV will yield much at all for AA pilots except more opportunities to feed QA 380's with AA 321's.
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