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Old 12-01-2019, 08:29 AM
  #61  
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Sure PSA has gotten some major QOL items in their ability to create great schedules and make $. But the other two... AA gonna have to do a lot of work to keep them. Anyone who is more than 3 years from their draft date is bailing to LCCs. The word is out. To say 4 on 2 off for 75 hours of garbage pay is better than what the last person on the AA list is flying is just not correct. 100s, if not thousand of us spent a decade or close being beaten down at the regionals. We are not going to roll over in the next contract. Gladly drag it out 4 years if that’s what it takes. Retro would be very important item.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:50 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
“QOL is better at the regionals than at AA.”

This is the most overused, laughable, and fictitious statement I’ve ever heard around here. And it’s complete and utter BS, usually uttered predominantly by miserable pilots who complain about everything AA and how much better it was at their previous airline.

Talk to most ex regional guys and ask them this question, you’ll usually get a laugh and a head shake in amazement.

Sure there were maybe ONE or TWO contractual items that were better at the regionals, simply due to the lower paying nature of the regionals and the necessity to have a couple of items to compensate for that.

Yes our contract needs reworking to bring up the sub standard stuff to DL/UA. It will come. But to say that QOL as a whole is better there than here is LAUGHABLE. Yeah, I’m sure there are tons of regional captains out there flying 3 day trips with a maximum of one or two legs per day, getting 15:45 for the trip at $278/hr with the 16% 401k contribution and 83hrs for the month with 16-17 days off.

Side note, I can’t help but notice the hordes of pilots leaving AA to go to the regionals for the massively better QOL, lol.
I believe comments like this are part of the problem. The JOB is better at AA than the regionals. A lot of the work RULES are not. UAL and DL are so far ahead of us. Do you think anyone else stays at stays at places like SJD, BDL, SMF, SFO golden gate or the Atrium? We need an educated pilot group. Profit sharing, LTD, QWL, TTOT, TTS, hotel language, RO, RA... the list goes on.
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Old 12-01-2019, 11:29 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
I believe comments like this are part of the problem. The JOB is better at AA than the regionals. A lot of the work RULES are not. UAL and DL are so far ahead of us. Do you think anyone else stays at stays at places like SJD, BDL, SMF, SFO golden gate or the Atrium? We need an educated pilot group. Profit sharing, LTD, QWL, TTOT, TTS, hotel language, RO, RA... the list goes on.
I agree Al. Of course we know the JOB is better at AA than at any regional. Hell the pay and retirement contributions alone make that much clear.

I will be giving up a ton of QOL when I leave PSA though. We have an unrestricted SAP and if you’re senior it isn’t hard at all to average 95-100 hours credit /month with 15-16 days off. There isn’t a single day or event that I have to work if I don’t want to.

But does that mean I want to stay at PSA? No. Show me the money at this point in my life. Being at a good regional is like saying you have the best seat on a burning ship. And I agree with an above poster... I don’t care if it takes 4+ years to get a good contract. You get what you negotiate, not what you deserve.
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Old 12-01-2019, 03:39 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
“QOL is better at the regionals than at AA.”

This is the most overused, laughable, and fictitious statement I’ve ever heard around here. And it’s complete and utter BS, usually uttered predominantly by miserable pilots who complain about everything AA and how much better it was at their previous airline.

Talk to most ex regional guys and ask them this question, you’ll usually get a laugh and a head shake in amazement.

Sure there were maybe ONE or TWO contractual items that were better at the regionals, simply due to the lower paying nature of the regionals and the necessity to have a couple of items to compensate for that.

Yes our contract needs reworking to bring up the sub standard stuff to DL/UA. It will come. But to say that QOL as a whole is better there than here is LAUGHABLE. Yeah, I’m sure there are tons of regional captains out there flying 3 day trips with a maximum of one or two legs per day, getting 15:45 for the trip at $278/hr with the 16% 401k contribution and 83hrs for the month with 16-17 days off.

Side note, I can’t help but notice the hordes of pilots leaving AA to go to the regionals for the massively better QOL, lol.
You're arguing semantics.

The choice of words "my qol was better at my regional" is probably poor. My "life quality" is certainly better now, and in the future, than it ever was or could be at a regional. What is really being said here is "I make more money at AA."

Before AA I NEVER had to work on Thanksgiving, Christmas, July 4th, Superbowl.......Whatever. This was not a function of seniority it was a function of WORK RULES of which AA has NONE. How does the airline staff Xmas? They pay premium and all the reserves work.

I understand that it is better now than it ever has been at AA and that is staggering to think about because there are next to no work rules outside of FARs. I make more money at AA and could not be more grateful or happy about the position I am in but that's it, only money.

In short I can provide better for my family at AA but am never around to see the fruits of what I work for.
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Old 12-01-2019, 05:09 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
I believe comments like this are part of the problem. The JOB is better at AA than the regionals. A lot of the work RULES are not. UAL and DL are so far ahead of us. Do you think anyone else stays at stays at places like SJD, BDL, SMF, SFO golden gate or the Atrium? We need an educated pilot group. Profit sharing, LTD, QWL, TTOT, TTS, hotel language, RO, RA... the list goes on.
Hotel language is just one area where we need to do better. Same with LTD and profit sharing.

However. TTOT, TTS, RO, RA? I have many contacts at DL and UA ALPA. Guess what, our TTOT system blows theirs away. They do not have LIVE 24/7 TTOT the way we do.. they just have a few windows during the day when they can trade. Much like our TTS. Our live 24/7 TTOT is actually a way better QOL item than they have.

RO, RA? They have it too. A ton. My DL and UA buddies are constantly getting RA’d to FAR limits. And when their trips fall apart they go into a form of RO just like we do.

You guys really want the UAL airport standby? Not me. Score another point for AA QOL.

You guys want to give up your paid sit time that DL and UA don’t have? Nope, me neither. Score another point.

What I’m getting at is.. they both have certain areas where we need to improve. Those are the areas I listed above. But as a whole we just are not that far apart from them. And guess what, we have more than a few QOL items that they DON’T have and would want on their end.

We’re getting there folks. But to truly achieve industry leading all you AA haters need to stop hating and rambling about how much better you had it wherever you came from... and start considering yourselves current AA pilots who are locked in step with your fellow APA pilots in achieving that ILC instead of constantly ripping on AA and all of its faults.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:01 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
Hotel language is just one area where we need to do better. Same with LTD and profit sharing.

However. TTOT, TTS, RO, RA? I have many contacts at DL and UA ALPA. Guess what, our TTOT system blows theirs away. They do not have LIVE 24/7 TTOT the way we do.. they just have a few windows during the day when they can trade. Much like our TTS. Our live 24/7 TTOT is actually a way better QOL item than they have.

RO, RA? They have it too. A ton. My DL and UA buddies are constantly getting RA’d to FAR limits. And when their trips fall apart they go into a form of RO just like we do.

You guys really want the UAL airport standby? Not me. Score another point for AA QOL.

You guys want to give up your paid sit time that DL and UA don’t have? Nope, me neither. Score another point.

What I’m getting at is.. they both have certain areas where we need to improve. Those are the areas I listed above. But as a whole we just are not that far apart from them. And guess what, we have more than a few QOL items that they DON’T have and would want on their end.

We’re getting there folks. But to truly achieve industry leading all you AA haters need to stop hating and rambling about how much better you had it wherever you came from... and start considering yourselves current AA pilots who are locked in step with your fellow APA pilots in achieving that ILC instead of constantly ripping on AA and all of its faults.
You really don’t think I think of myself as a AA pilot? I’m fully behind APA, I know and fly the contract. You are out of touch with your comments about UAL/DL....our red/redder TTOT is going away too.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:13 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
You really don’t think I think of myself as a AA pilot? I’m fully behind APA, I know and fly the contract. You are out of touch with your comments about UAL/DL....our red/redder TTOT is going away too.
I wasn’t referring to you specifically at all. Just those who are always on this forum constantly slamming everything AA.

Out of touch? Whatever you say man. While working on APA committees I constantly corresponded with my ALPA counterparts at those airlines and gained a solid understanding of their contracts.

Regarding TTOT... it’ll be a sad day indeed if they do away with it. You want to talk about a QOL hit? Getting rid of TTOT will be a huge blow to ours. I don’t think many of you understand just how advantageous Live 24/7 TTOT is until the day you don’t have it. Being restricted to just a couple of windows a day for trip trading is not an enhancement to QOL. Sure I wish the lights were green more but even with the red/redder dilemma I’m almost always able to TTOT some trips away every month.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:37 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
Regarding TTOT... it’ll be a sad day indeed if they do away with it. You want to talk about a QOL hit? Getting rid of TTOT will be a huge blow to ours. I don’t think many of you understand just how advantageous Live 24/7 TTOT is until the day you don’t have it. Being restricted to just a couple of windows a day for trip trading is not an enhancement to QOL. Sure I wish the lights were green more but even with the red/redder dilemma I’m almost always able to TTOT some trips away every month.
Yes TTOT is way way better than their LUS way, which was you called in your bids for a trip trade 2 days prior. That was it. Now, I can trade a trip whenever I want, it’s fantastic. Yes the red green plotter needs to be loosened, and there are other improvements I’d like to see, such as trip splitting and trading up to 3 hours prior to sign in.
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:28 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
Yea that’s a head scratcher for many of us looking to move up to mainline in the next couple years. “So my QOL at work will actually be worse?”
Yes
Do not flow
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Old 12-01-2019, 09:15 PM
  #70  
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Envoy CA line holder this month with a 72hr line and 11 days off with a lost day over Christmas. We get 150% on Christmas, times the min day guarantee of zero hours gets me all of zero dollars for Christmas at work. Awesome right? Add in the absolute inability to drop a trip or even a turn, or pick up any quality OT. At least I am senior enough to have weekends off, plenty of lines in the packet with much less going for them than mine. 2 weeks of vacation per year until 8 yrs of service with essentially no profit sharing and 3.5% 401k match, making a fraction of the money a pilot at AA makes. Guess I could always bid reserve and get used every single day with 11 days off and unlimited airport standby for 8 hrs a day...
Please tell me how my quality of life with be going down at AA? Seriously would love to know so I can skip the flow.
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