The AA Flow-Thru Agreements MUST END
11-22-2019, 05:55 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by Pilot X
I’ve also flown with 2 guys at US Airways that were practicing medical doctors, maybe they can cancel out 2 of your high school diploma guys
I've flown with a few guys with law degrees that couldn't fly all that well and would have been better in an office.
I'm one of those guys without a 4 year degree. Many of my friends here are in the same boat. I was on my way to one when I made the decision to quit and fly for a regional because Piedmont didn't require a 4 year degree at the time. Flying for Piedmont was my dream and I figured that they could not continue to grow and hire at that rate they were in the early '80's. I was correct. At times I wondered if it was the right decision, but looks like it worked out. Now there are a few areas of study that interest me-maybe after retirement, if I can pull the writing off. Not my strong suit.
All that said, my current position has allowed me to work with many new hires this last year. Most, whether from the military or flow(I haven't worked with the few non-military, non-flows we've hired) have been great. The flow guys usually have an easier time because they have the airline stuff down, but every military hire has worked their rear off to catch up.
There will be some bad apples from all barrels. Painting a picture that our flow pilots are losers that could not get hired elsewhere is false and unfair. Many have decided that, like it or not, AA has gone down the flow road and that if they want to fly here then that's the choice.
I've had two flow guys with attitudes and we had to have a chat. Thing is, I don't think the attitude was a product of the flow, it was their personality and it would have been there no matter what their background.
The last year has shown me that we have an amazingly talented pilot group. Often personalities get mistaken for being a poor pilot and we need to separate the two.
Last edited by R57 relay; 11-22-2019 at 06:16 AM.
11-22-2019, 06:02 AM
#182
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by R57 relay
Pilot X-quoting you because of the doctor comment, but aimed at entire thread, not you. I know you were addressing the less than flattering post from the other poster.
I've flown with a few guys with law degrees that couldn't fly all that well and would have been better in an office.
I'm one of those guys without a 4 year degree. Many of my friends here are in the same boat. I was on my way to one when I made the decision to quit and fly for a regional because Piedmont didn't require a 4 year degree at the time. Flying for Piedmont was my dream and I figured that they could not continue to grow and hire at that rate they were in the early '80's. I was correct. At times I wondered if it was the right decision, but looks like it worked out. Now there are a few areas of study that interest me-maybe after retirement, if I can pull the writing off. Not my strong suit.
All that said, my current position has allowed me to work with many new hires this last year. Most, whether from the military or flow(I haven't worked with the few non-military, non-flows we've hired) have been great. The flow guys usually have an easier time because they have the airline stuff down, but every military hire has worked their rear off to catch up.
There will be some bad apples from all barrels. Painting a picture that our flow pilots are losers that could not get hired elsewhere is false and unfair. Many have decided that, like it or not, AA has gone down the flow road and that if they want to fly here then that's the choice.
I've had two flow guys with attitudes and we had to have a chat. Thing is, I don't think the attitude was a product of the flow, it was their personality and it would have been there no matter what their background.
The last year has shown me that we have an amazingly talented pilot group. Often personalities get mistaken for being a poor pilot and we need to separate the two.
I've flown with a few guys with law degrees that couldn't fly all that well and would have been better in an office.
I'm one of those guys without a 4 year degree. Many of my friends here are in the same boat. I was on my way to one when I made the decision to quit and fly for a regional because Piedmont didn't require a 4 year degree at the time. Flying for Piedmont was my dream and I figured that they could not continue to grow and hire at that rate they were in the early '80's. I was correct. At times I wondered if it was the right decision, but looks like it worked out. Now there are a few areas of study that interest me-maybe after retirement, if I can pull the writing off. Not my strong suit.
All that said, my current position has allowed me to work with many new hires this last year. Most, whether from the military or flow(I haven't worked with the few non-military, non-flows we've hired) have been great. The flow guys usually have an easier time because they have the airline stuff down, but every military hire has worked their rear off to catch up.
There will be some bad apples from all barrels. Painting a picture that our flow pilots are losers that could not get hired elsewhere is false and unfair. Many have decided that, like it or not, AA has gone down the flow road and that if they want to fly here then that's the choice.
I've had two flow guys with attitudes and we had to have a chat. Thing is, I don't think the attitude was a product of the flow, it was their personality and it would have been there no matter what their background.
The last year has shown me that we have an amazingly talented pilot group. Often personalities get mistaken for being a poor pilot and we need to separate the two.
Very well said! Agree 100%
11-22-2019, 06:34 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Karloffstall
quality of flow candidates aside (which has been mentioned that flow airlines are the home of the deplorable with no other option for a major except to hold a golden ticket).... the flow is only going to continue to strengthen AA managements position to give AA pilots subpar contracts and treatment because such a giant percentage of pilots didnt actually earn a job at AA.
contract negotiations will likely go like this...
AA pilots:give us industry standard
AA management: youre lucky to be here, you'll get nothing
contract negotiations will likely go like this...
AA pilots:give us industry standard
AA management: youre lucky to be here, you'll get nothing
Doug Parker was wetting his pants for the last merger, a fact lost on the APA.
At least the regional flows all pretty much had better scheduling rules than the Native AA. The rescheduling at this airline is out of control.
I believe just the opposite will happen. The regional flows will start to steer the contracts away from the Legacy AA mindset. The mindset that voted profitsharing away, when the economy was set to take off. That was an unbelievably stupid move.
11-22-2019, 07:02 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by iaveight
If you can’t get out of the regionals better look inward. Been in the USA less then three years, no degree, Airbus training starts in January. Possibly you would rather flow, and also have become comfortable?, not looking 100 percent? I was due to flow in three and been at my regional 2.3 years. Look hard and focus something will transpire if you really want it too!
11-22-2019, 07:14 AM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by Karloffstall
quality of flow candidates aside (which has been mentioned that flow airlines are the home of the deplorable with no other option for a major except to hold a golden ticket).... the flow is only going to continue to strengthen AA managements position to give AA pilots subpar contracts and treatment because such a giant percentage of pilots didnt actually earn a job at AA.
contract negotiations will likely go like this...
AA pilots:give us industry standard
AA management: youre lucky to be here, you'll get nothing
contract negotiations will likely go like this...
AA pilots:give us industry standard
AA management: youre lucky to be here, you'll get nothing
Contract wise they are not the group of new hires you need to worry about.
11-22-2019, 07:26 AM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by iaveight
If you can’t get out of the regionals better look inward.
Originally Posted by iaveight
Been in the USA less then three years, no degree, Airbus training starts in January.
Originally Posted by iaveight
Look hard and focus something will transpire if you really want it too!
11-22-2019, 08:16 AM
#187
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Position: 737
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by iaveight
If you can’t get out of the regionals better look inward. Been in the USA less then three years, no degree, Airbus training starts in January. Possibly you would rather flow, and also have become comfortable?, not looking 100 percent? I was due to flow in three and been at my regional 2.3 years. Look hard and focus something will transpire if you really want it too!
This is ridiculous.
I personally didn’t apply at any ULCC. I much preferred my seniority and schedule at my regional to anything those companies offered. I suspect many at Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy feel the same way. Why go to Allegiant (or spirit or Jetblue) when you flow to American Airlines? To fly an Airbus? Big whoop.
11-22-2019, 12:51 PM
#188
Goin Streakin!
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: Hogless
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by AverageCoffee
This is ridiculous.
I personally didn’t apply at any ULCC. I much preferred my seniority and schedule at my regional to anything those companies offered. I suspect many at Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy feel the same way. Why go to Allegiant (or spirit or Jetblue) when you flow to American Airlines? To fly an Airbus? Big whoop.
I personally didn’t apply at any ULCC. I much preferred my seniority and schedule at my regional to anything those companies offered. I suspect many at Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy feel the same way. Why go to Allegiant (or spirit or Jetblue) when you flow to American Airlines? To fly an Airbus? Big whoop.
11-22-2019, 07:56 PM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Erroneous
I know two, one barely made it out of OE and the other didn’t finish ground school before AA and UAL picked them up. Who’s to say there isn’t another bucket from which they pull names being those employed by another Major?
Edit: also, this is a dumb thread, and we are all dumber for reading OPs post and the ensuing arguments, mine included.
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