Future of AA?
12-19-2019, 03:33 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 269
Near term outlook.
The Good. Making money hand over fist. Expanding network. Hiring pilots at projected record pace. Passengers have few choices. High cost of airplane acquisition is behind us.
The Bad. Continue wallowing. Morale is low among many work groups and contracts are up now or very soon. Our operation has seen some improvement as of late but I would guess all airlines have done better this fall.
The Ugly. Plenty of Us with one foot out the door and I have enough money but will ride it out syndrome. This results in a “I don’t give a crap attitude” and you’ve beat me up so bad that I can take it and I will dish it out right back at you. I get a real sense of a short fuse for our contract that is amendable Jan. 1. It appears the company is looking for a fight and we are more than willing. Let the shenanigans begin. It’s not fun working like this. We need an industry leading contract and will not settle for less.
Future. Anyone’s guess. In my years at AA it has been give give give. If we get a contract it will be my first normal non bankrupt non concessionary deal in the 21 years I have been here. If I told anyone when I was hired that I would not be part of a normal contract agreement for that long I would have been laughed at.
Suggestion. Save more than you think is possible and then you can sit back and watch. The job improves tremendously when you don’t owe money and you have a large nest egg in the bank. I couldn’t afford a Cadillac every month but I could buy a civic a month.
The Good. Making money hand over fist. Expanding network. Hiring pilots at projected record pace. Passengers have few choices. High cost of airplane acquisition is behind us.
The Bad. Continue wallowing. Morale is low among many work groups and contracts are up now or very soon. Our operation has seen some improvement as of late but I would guess all airlines have done better this fall.
The Ugly. Plenty of Us with one foot out the door and I have enough money but will ride it out syndrome. This results in a “I don’t give a crap attitude” and you’ve beat me up so bad that I can take it and I will dish it out right back at you. I get a real sense of a short fuse for our contract that is amendable Jan. 1. It appears the company is looking for a fight and we are more than willing. Let the shenanigans begin. It’s not fun working like this. We need an industry leading contract and will not settle for less.
Future. Anyone’s guess. In my years at AA it has been give give give. If we get a contract it will be my first normal non bankrupt non concessionary deal in the 21 years I have been here. If I told anyone when I was hired that I would not be part of a normal contract agreement for that long I would have been laughed at.
Suggestion. Save more than you think is possible and then you can sit back and watch. The job improves tremendously when you don’t owe money and you have a large nest egg in the bank. I couldn’t afford a Cadillac every month but I could buy a civic a month.
12-19-2019, 09:11 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Surely, you don’t mean to insinuate that quarterly calls and other investor relations’ communications are nothing but the truth & whole truth... (Obligatory response: “Don’t call me ‘Shirley’”...)
Every company/organization puts a certain amount of lipstick on the pig, if you will, but that’s often tough to pass off as complete/accurate/legitimate to those on the inside living operational reality every day, hence the post seeking perspective from those of you right in the thick of it currently.
Every company/organization puts a certain amount of lipstick on the pig, if you will, but that’s often tough to pass off as complete/accurate/legitimate to those on the inside living operational reality every day, hence the post seeking perspective from those of you right in the thick of it currently.
Originally Posted by nAAtive
You clearly didn’t read any of the last quarters calls. They addressed several of your questions.
12-20-2019, 03:46 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by flyinawa
I swear to God I'm going to pistol whip the next guy who says, " Shenanigans."
12-20-2019, 05:42 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by drinksonme
What has Kirby done at United that is so innovative? He did exactly what he did at AWA, US Airways, and AA. He knows how to network and utilize the equipment. That’s all well and good, but he didn’t do anything revolutionary at United. It just shows how inept UAL was. Now I will give him credit, he made AA look like idiots for going with Vasu over him on Networking. Jury is still out on Isom over him to be the leader at AA. AND ISOM MIGHT NEVER GET IT (praying for our sake).
Kirby is abrasive, self-absorbed, and very arrogant. AA BOD didn’t like that about him. He’s smart as hell though and it was a good move by him to go to United when AA turned away. Munoz was on borrowed time after the heart transplant as the CEO, and Kirby knew he could get a shot quickly.
Yet Kirby is a creature of habit too. He has helped United, but now has pushed his way into negotiations and is trying to force his vision of RJ’s everywhere. He is attacking UAL’s ALPA’s scope, and the union rank and file are not pleased. So he is doing what he’s always done. Good networking, good utilization, fights labor and trys to kill scope. In the process, as he’s done in the past, all the good he has done is erased when he continues to battle labor. Any morale boost they had from all his good work for the airline, is turning to bad morale cause of his fascination with scope and RJ’s. They are completely at a standstill on negotiations cause he stepped in and asked for scope changes right at the very end. He can’t just be satisfied with the success of the airline. He has to dominate his unions (which he sees as rivals and not partners) as part of his success. He is old school thought process.
Kirby is abrasive, self-absorbed, and very arrogant. AA BOD didn’t like that about him. He’s smart as hell though and it was a good move by him to go to United when AA turned away. Munoz was on borrowed time after the heart transplant as the CEO, and Kirby knew he could get a shot quickly.
Yet Kirby is a creature of habit too. He has helped United, but now has pushed his way into negotiations and is trying to force his vision of RJ’s everywhere. He is attacking UAL’s ALPA’s scope, and the union rank and file are not pleased. So he is doing what he’s always done. Good networking, good utilization, fights labor and trys to kill scope. In the process, as he’s done in the past, all the good he has done is erased when he continues to battle labor. Any morale boost they had from all his good work for the airline, is turning to bad morale cause of his fascination with scope and RJ’s. They are completely at a standstill on negotiations cause he stepped in and asked for scope changes right at the very end. He can’t just be satisfied with the success of the airline. He has to dominate his unions (which he sees as rivals and not partners) as part of his success. He is old school thought process.
In 2018 United beat AA, 3.2B to AA's 2.7B, so the spread flipped, increased and at tighter margins. I think that is impressive, and is a result of SK.
The OP understands contracts are hard fought everywhere.
SK probbally demanded scope at the end so the pilots can see the price of that concession, and tempt them to vote against their principles.
I'am not in their loop, I guess if they negotiated the scope section and closed it as complete that would be different than saving it for last.
Last edited by Happyflyer; 12-20-2019 at 05:55 AM.
12-20-2019, 06:56 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by Varks
Future. Anyone’s guess. In my years at AA it has been give give give. If we get a contract it will be my first normal non bankrupt non concessionary deal in the 21 years I have been here. If I told anyone when I was hired that I would not be part of a normal contract agreement for that long I would have been laughed at.
10-15-2021, 04:51 PM
#18
You scratched my anchor
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,876
Sounds like the future of AA is exactly as it has always been. Reading the negation update the company is rolling the typical stall tactics. I’d suggest looking elsewhere for employment if I was on the outside. SSDD.
10-15-2021, 07:30 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 589
Picking which airline(for me anyways) was based on about 4 questions I had to answer: Did I have an offer from said airline?(pretty cut and dry)
Did said airline have a base that I lived in or wanted to live in?(had to be a viable base, one I didn't think would get shutdown soon)
What kind of seniority advancement would I get at this airline compared to others?
and finally
Was this airline in good financial and company culture health?
AA isn't going anywhere and working here isn't nearly as bad as some on message boards will make it out to be. Could it be better sure. I do wish we had a better product and better reputation and honestly would take that over an ILC. But I could be in the minority when it comes to that....
Did said airline have a base that I lived in or wanted to live in?(had to be a viable base, one I didn't think would get shutdown soon)
What kind of seniority advancement would I get at this airline compared to others?
and finally
Was this airline in good financial and company culture health?
AA isn't going anywhere and working here isn't nearly as bad as some on message boards will make it out to be. Could it be better sure. I do wish we had a better product and better reputation and honestly would take that over an ILC. But I could be in the minority when it comes to that....
10-16-2021, 12:55 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by Varks
Near term outlook.
The Good. Making money hand over fist. Expanding network. Hiring pilots at projected record pace. Passengers have few choices. High cost of airplane acquisition is behind us.
The Bad. Continue wallowing. Morale is low among many work groups and contracts are up now or very soon. Our operation has seen some improvement as of late but I would guess all airlines have done better this fall.
The Ugly. Plenty of Us with one foot out the door and I have enough money but will ride it out syndrome. This results in a “I don’t give a crap attitude” and you’ve beat me up so bad that I can take it and I will dish it out right back at you. I get a real sense of a short fuse for our contract that is amendable Jan. 1. It appears the company is looking for a fight and we are more than willing. Let the shenanigans begin. It’s not fun working like this. We need an industry leading contract and will not settle for less.
Future. Anyone’s guess. In my years at AA it has been give give give. If we get a contract it will be my first normal non bankrupt non concessionary deal in the 21 years I have been here. If I told anyone when I was hired that I would not be part of a normal contract agreement for that long I would have been laughed at.
Suggestion. Save more than you think is possible and then you can sit back and watch. The job improves tremendously when you don’t owe money and you have a large nest egg in the bank. I couldn’t afford a Cadillac every month but I could buy a civic a month.
The Good. Making money hand over fist. Expanding network. Hiring pilots at projected record pace. Passengers have few choices. High cost of airplane acquisition is behind us.
The Bad. Continue wallowing. Morale is low among many work groups and contracts are up now or very soon. Our operation has seen some improvement as of late but I would guess all airlines have done better this fall.
The Ugly. Plenty of Us with one foot out the door and I have enough money but will ride it out syndrome. This results in a “I don’t give a crap attitude” and you’ve beat me up so bad that I can take it and I will dish it out right back at you. I get a real sense of a short fuse for our contract that is amendable Jan. 1. It appears the company is looking for a fight and we are more than willing. Let the shenanigans begin. It’s not fun working like this. We need an industry leading contract and will not settle for less.
Future. Anyone’s guess. In my years at AA it has been give give give. If we get a contract it will be my first normal non bankrupt non concessionary deal in the 21 years I have been here. If I told anyone when I was hired that I would not be part of a normal contract agreement for that long I would have been laughed at.
Suggestion. Save more than you think is possible and then you can sit back and watch. The job improves tremendously when you don’t owe money and you have a large nest egg in the bank. I couldn’t afford a Cadillac every month but I could buy a civic a month.
South consistently loads do not break double digit and generally we are talking less than 50 people. Ten plus hour flights on 280-300 passenger planes eats up a lot more money than a packed short haul narrow body flight. And its not only my base. Check the loads on Jetnet sometime or just do a few 26A international city pairs in decs. Show me the money because I don't think the real situation is being seen out there. Unless conditions change real fast things will get ugly bad attitude or not.
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