AA 4th Qtr Results
01-25-2020, 08:23 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: On all fours
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by GhettoJet
Hey we’ve got our first corporate champion.
Who is clearly a pencil pusher somewhere in the bowels of the masterbase because no mainline pilot would actually say this.
The Skywest, PSA, and ULCC guys we get are consistently better than our Envoy flows.
Which is why we need to eliminate this flow throw garbage before it poisons our seniority list as badly as management has poisoned the product.
Who is clearly a pencil pusher somewhere in the bowels of the masterbase because no mainline pilot would actually say this.
The Skywest, PSA, and ULCC guys we get are consistently better than our Envoy flows.
Which is why we need to eliminate this flow throw garbage before it poisons our seniority list as badly as management has poisoned the product.
01-25-2020, 09:17 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by GhettoJet
Hey we’ve got our first corporate champion.
Who is clearly a pencil pusher somewhere in the bowels of the masterbase because no mainline pilot would actually say this.
The Skywest, PSA, and ULCC guys we get are consistently better than our Envoy flows.
Which is why we need to eliminate this flow throw garbage before it poisons our seniority list as badly as management has poisoned the product.
Who is clearly a pencil pusher somewhere in the bowels of the masterbase because no mainline pilot would actually say this.
The Skywest, PSA, and ULCC guys we get are consistently better than our Envoy flows.
Which is why we need to eliminate this flow throw garbage before it poisons our seniority list as badly as management has poisoned the product.
The vast majority of our “forward leaners” who refuse to even do the small union asks tend to be the senior, older folk. They were not flow throughs.
Last edited by AAL24; 01-25-2020 at 09:54 AM.
01-25-2020, 01:18 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,093
Originally Posted by Andrew_VT
The 4th quarter bump was because they stopped prepaying the pension as they had been to goose the EOY numbers. They still missed their yearly management profit sharing target by $100mil.
We are most definitely not on the right track and to say otherwise makes you look like a fool and a poor union member.
We are most definitely not on the right track and to say otherwise makes you look like a fool and a poor union member.
First / Second year pay...
From August 2019:
Originally Posted by Name User
Notice our total cash position has increased since last quarter. The company is planning on making a $750m contribution to the pension fund this year. This is already after over contributing this year.
Now hear me out. Either they are bad at math or they are trying to goose their earnings at some point in the future. By prepaying their pension obligations now, they make the company look weaker than it is now (contract talks? I dunno). But they are essentially prepaying some massive obligations now. My thinking is in a year or two when our capex drops off a cliff they will also not have the pension contributions to make, and presto EPS shoots thru the roof (if we aren't bought by a corporate raider prior to that).
That's my tinfoil hat thinking for today.
Now hear me out. Either they are bad at math or they are trying to goose their earnings at some point in the future. By prepaying their pension obligations now, they make the company look weaker than it is now (contract talks? I dunno). But they are essentially prepaying some massive obligations now. My thinking is in a year or two when our capex drops off a cliff they will also not have the pension contributions to make, and presto EPS shoots thru the roof (if we aren't bought by a corporate raider prior to that).
That's my tinfoil hat thinking for today.
Last edited by Name User; 01-25-2020 at 01:35 PM.
01-27-2020, 08:37 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 531
Interesting number I saw: AA has about 129,000 employees for a revenue of $44.5B. Delta has 89,000 employees for a similar revenue.
Delta has 31% fewer employees but makes about the same amount of money, carries maybe 5% fewer passengers, and has about 80 fewer airplanes. Is American "right-sized" or bloated from previous mergers, and then a reluctance to reduce duplicate jobs? Or is this just a difference in approach toward getting work done (more quality assurance, higher QOL due to more work sharing, better / easier customer service and attention, etc)?
Delta has 31% fewer employees but makes about the same amount of money, carries maybe 5% fewer passengers, and has about 80 fewer airplanes. Is American "right-sized" or bloated from previous mergers, and then a reluctance to reduce duplicate jobs? Or is this just a difference in approach toward getting work done (more quality assurance, higher QOL due to more work sharing, better / easier customer service and attention, etc)?
01-27-2020, 09:00 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Delta outsourced a lot more maintenance and ground service work. The multi year battle with the mechanics union at AA has been about the future of their jobs. AA wants to eliminate the job as they retire.
01-27-2020, 09:39 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,093
Originally Posted by watch
Interesting number I saw: AA has about 129,000 employees for a revenue of $44.5B. Delta has 89,000 employees for a similar revenue.
Delta has 31% fewer employees but makes about the same amount of money, carries maybe 5% fewer passengers, and has about 80 fewer airplanes. Is American "right-sized" or bloated from previous mergers, and then a reluctance to reduce duplicate jobs? Or is this just a difference in approach toward getting work done (more quality assurance, higher QOL due to more work sharing, better / easier customer service and attention, etc)?
Delta has 31% fewer employees but makes about the same amount of money, carries maybe 5% fewer passengers, and has about 80 fewer airplanes. Is American "right-sized" or bloated from previous mergers, and then a reluctance to reduce duplicate jobs? Or is this just a difference in approach toward getting work done (more quality assurance, higher QOL due to more work sharing, better / easier customer service and attention, etc)?
It's not like Delta doesn't do those things, they just aren't on their payroll.
Delta makes more because they have a stronger brand and can charge more for tickets (called yield).
01-27-2020, 12:24 PM
#27
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Joined APC: May 2017
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by Name User
AA also owns (and counts) Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont carriers as employees. Also AA does much more in house as far as maintenance goes not only aircraft but also facilities.
It's not like Delta doesn't do those things, they just aren't on their payroll.
Delta makes more because they have a stronger brand and can charge more for tickets (called yield).
It's not like Delta doesn't do those things, they just aren't on their payroll.
Delta makes more because they have a stronger brand and can charge more for tickets (called yield).
01-28-2020, 05:03 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 531
Originally Posted by watch
Interesting number I saw: AA has about 129,000 employees for a revenue of $44.5B. Delta has 89,000 employees for a similar revenue.
"AAL still employs tens of thousands more employees than Delta or United to generate comparable levels of revenue. AAL’s higher employment levels are in part due to the American-USAirways merger which came about because of efforts by current AAL and former USAirways CEO Doug Parker’s plan to orchestrate a merger while AMR, the former parent of American Airlines, was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization, wresting control of the company from AMR executives who were proposing a standalone American reorganization. Parker won the support of American’s labor unions but in the process failed to enact many of the work rule changes that were necessary to create industry-comparable labor efficiencies. To compound matters, many of USAirways ground employees were represented by the International Association of Machinists (IAM) while the Transport Workers Union (TWU) represented large portions of American’s ground employees. The two formed an association to represent the combined workforce but most of the employees that are represented by the association do not have a joint contract six years after the merger, meaning some work is fenced to either the former USAirways or former American employee groups."
Even worse:
"American’s primary cost challenge is that it is grossly overstaffed compared to other airlines and aviation history shows that it is virtually impossible to cut the number of employees necessary to restore AAL’s cost competitiveness outside of bankruptcy reorganization where labor contracts are modified as necessary to ensure the future survival of the company."
Is this guy barking up the right tree?
Last edited by watch; 01-28-2020 at 05:14 AM.
01-28-2020, 06:29 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,447
Originally Posted by watch
from seeking alpha:
"AAL still employs tens of thousands more employees than Delta or United to generate comparable levels of revenue. AAL’s higher employment levels are in part due to the American-USAirways merger which came about because of efforts by current AAL and former USAirways CEO Doug Parker’s plan to orchestrate a merger while AMR, the former parent of American Airlines, was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization, wresting control of the company from AMR executives who were proposing a standalone American reorganization. Parker won the support of American’s labor unions but in the process failed to enact many of the work rule changes that were necessary to create industry-comparable labor efficiencies. To compound matters, many of USAirways ground employees were represented by the International Association of Machinists (IAM) while the Transport Workers Union (TWU) represented large portions of American’s ground employees. The two formed an association to represent the combined workforce but most of the employees that are represented by the association do not have a joint contract six years after the merger, meaning some work is fenced to either the former USAirways or former American employee groups."
Even worse:
"American’s primary cost challenge is that it is grossly overstaffed compared to other airlines and aviation history shows that it is virtually impossible to cut the number of employees necessary to restore AAL’s cost competitiveness outside of bankruptcy reorganization where labor contracts are modified as necessary to ensure the future survival of the company."
Is this guy barking up the right tree?
"AAL still employs tens of thousands more employees than Delta or United to generate comparable levels of revenue. AAL’s higher employment levels are in part due to the American-USAirways merger which came about because of efforts by current AAL and former USAirways CEO Doug Parker’s plan to orchestrate a merger while AMR, the former parent of American Airlines, was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization, wresting control of the company from AMR executives who were proposing a standalone American reorganization. Parker won the support of American’s labor unions but in the process failed to enact many of the work rule changes that were necessary to create industry-comparable labor efficiencies. To compound matters, many of USAirways ground employees were represented by the International Association of Machinists (IAM) while the Transport Workers Union (TWU) represented large portions of American’s ground employees. The two formed an association to represent the combined workforce but most of the employees that are represented by the association do not have a joint contract six years after the merger, meaning some work is fenced to either the former USAirways or former American employee groups."
Even worse:
"American’s primary cost challenge is that it is grossly overstaffed compared to other airlines and aviation history shows that it is virtually impossible to cut the number of employees necessary to restore AAL’s cost competitiveness outside of bankruptcy reorganization where labor contracts are modified as necessary to ensure the future survival of the company."
Is this guy barking up the right tree?
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