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Thoughts on Bailouts?

Old 03-16-2020, 05:27 PM
  #11  
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I generally do not support bailouts, though in our case, I would. Our losses are a direct result of government directives. They have greatly contributed to our losses. Since their policies and recommendations are directly affecting us during this crisis, they should have to prop us up. If we were floundering due to our own issues, I wouldn’t support a bailout.
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Old 03-16-2020, 05:39 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by texaspilot76 View Post
I generally do not support bailouts, though in our case, I would. Our losses are a direct result of government directives. They have greatly contributed to our losses. Since their policies and recommendations are directly affecting us during this crisis, they should have to prop us up. If we were floundering due to our own issues, I wouldn’t support a bailout.
The legacies collectively declaring bankruptcy and walking away from all of their widebodies (don't need those anymore!) and half or more of their narrow bodies would not only completely decimate the US Military's ability to respond to a conflict (of which I fear may come from this) but also most likely bankrupt both Boeing and GE, along with their subsidiaries and suppliers...

the amount of job destruction is almost unimaginable.

I have a feeling we're going to get a haircut. And most likely a pretty large wage cut too. But I just hope it's not a bankruptcy walk away from half of it...a la US Airways post 9/11 (6000 to 3000 pilots).

We owe China $1T USD...Trump is the kinda guy that would tell them to screw off...that is downpayment for causing this mess.
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:13 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by daOldMan View Post
What percent of major corporations, not to mention our government and military, depend on passenger carrying airlines?
Dunno. But it doesn't matter because all of the airlines are not going out of business.
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:25 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Name User View Post
We owe China $1T USD...Trump is the kinda guy that would tell them to screw off...that is downpayment for causing this mess.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ everyone else is incapable, sounds like there as at least 2 of us who believe this.

As said before by folks, restructuring will most likely happen (it has started) to show some financial responsibility and attempts to flex to the situation in order gain the entrusted bailout. Is it save the Big 3, or 2 what’s the plan? Either way, all 3 will not be at the same momentum prior to this debacle as recovery will not come “roaring” back to the business as the mantra we are all hopeful for. So many factors never seen before impacting businesses from Giant to small, venues shutting down, conventions/trade shows which were planned a year or more ahead of time with attendances exceeding 100K easy, the hotels and restaurants supporting them and more, sporting events and education in all forms to include bars, eateries and gatherings limited to some and now none in many cases. None = how long can you last with a reduction in devastating numbers of patrons. Other businesses will rise up to fill gaps of course. I have full faith it will come back in some form or another. Some will thrive quickly, others like our industry will be perhaps a year or more at best. (Just my thoughts)

Once past this goat rope, sporting events, entertainment, gatherings of conventions showcasing their latest innovations could roar back quickly. We love our entertainment and gatherings so there’s that. My concern lies in the business world.

Business world (government and schools) is falling back to VTC networking, telecommuting, etc. and they are learning even more innovative ways which will affect travel and common large brick and mortar requirements in the future. Laptops, etc. are one thing, but everyone has a large screen TV (cheap now) and most are hooked to the net so with a little more knowledge that will spread like wildfire. Microsoft, Google and Zoom and many others are trying to keep up with video conferencing software. Most offering free trials, this is spreading just like our current attacker. It’s logical to conclude that many companies are rethinking their strategies to mitigate this pandemic or other like issues in the future. Just use that magnifying glass on your search engine.

There is a huge FORCED learning curve in all of this.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:54 PM
  #15  
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I don’t know why people are even considering paycuts. In the post consolidation industry airlines were raking in the cash. Now they are losing it hand over fist because supply far exceeds demand. We could work for free and they would be losing money. Wages are not what caused this. It was a temporary massive disruption. The airline fundamentals are still good. Once supppy and demand are in balance things will stabilize. Loans, bailouts, whatever. Cutting your pay x% will not make a difference it will just transfer wealth from your pocket to mgt and or investors. So many weak d$&ks in this industry.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:16 PM
  #16  
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the govt is mandating curfews and shelter in place. an estimated 1M restaurant workers alone will soon be unemployed.

where is their bailout
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:26 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by senecacaptain View Post
the govt is mandating curfews and shelter in place. an estimated 1M restaurant workers alone will soon be unemployed.

where is their bailout
Will the world function without most of them?
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:01 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by BurnerAccount69 View Post
Will the world function without most of them?
if they don’t have the discretionary income to travel, eat out, shop, etc, then no. Get over yourself.
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Old 03-17-2020, 05:40 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by CVGair View Post
Spit my fake teeth out funny, if airlines are needed than private money will fund them, end of story. For the past 11 years people have been flying cheaper than driving. Thats right cheaper for the convenience of flying. All of the legacies will declare BK and private money will then invest, rinse repeat. As previous stated during BK reign in the regionals, B scale, all one American family, stop the insanity, show some pride. Make up for the mistakes of past "leaders" giving up scope, enough is enough.
Wasn't scope given up because management pushed for it, and pilots caved? Logic tells you that in order to take back what we have already given up, which is now status quo, would require us to have the upper hand.

I'll admit this is the first career-threatening event of my career and I am new to a lot of this. But my understanding is that during a bankruptcy, if it were to happen, we could very well have things forced down our throats that we don't agree to. That seems like a far cry from a situation where we can demand to reign in scope. Which, to my understanding, management fought for to save a few bucks. Again, if scope relief saves them money, then logic tells you that scope restrictions cost them money. And this would all be argued in bankruptcy court, if it gets to that point. Not to mention that if the judge was appointed in the last three years, they most likely do not have a favorable view of union workers.
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Old 03-17-2020, 05:44 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by AAL24 View Post
I don’t know why people are even considering paycuts. In the post consolidation industry airlines were raking in the cash. Now they are losing it hand over fist because supply far exceeds demand. We could work for free and they would be losing money. Wages are not what caused this. It was a temporary massive disruption. The airline fundamentals are still good. Once supppy and demand are in balance things will stabilize. Loans, bailouts, whatever. Cutting your pay x% will not make a difference it will just transfer wealth from your pocket to mgt and or investors. So many weak d$&ks in this industry.

Last time, when the banks were collapsing into themselves, they were getting told to merge with others, or go out of business.
Dont be surprised to see some forced marriages of the weakest carriers into others. You could easily see JBlue, Alaska and others get forced marriages with larger carriers as a requirement of a bailout. It could get that bad.
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