Pretty much. I sure wish I had all the answers.

You don't know everyone's situation and it's really none of your business.

I have a friend that has been here 3+ decades and a captain, this go round, for about 10 years. But he's carrying the load for many family members.

A permanent leave is available to you if you wish. Why didn't you take it?

I wish you were eligible to go on permanent leave.

lol........

LOL. In fairness, at least he didn't do the nana nana boo boo dance and tell everyone he's dropping mil leave. :D

My bad, i was being a jerkoff. To each his own.

It was maybe worded a little harsh, but I don’t think he was far off the mark for many people. I’ve heard those type of things many times.

The problem was you said they were ALL losers, which isn't true.

Some of them definitely are though :-)

What happens if this world snaps back and everyone is like F it!! We need to travel. and all of a sudden AA is short of pilots again, Will they let these guys come back if they need them? The way our contract is we need more bodies who work less, supposed they rules could change. But, it’s also not out the possibility they get called to come back. Doubtful, but it’s just another scenario that could happen, because NO one knows what the industry will look like in the 4th a. much less 24-36 months from now.

The majority of the leaves that were given are 1 month or 3 month leaves. There will not be much demand for air travel in that amount of time. Even those with 6 month leaves will be back before Q4 of this year.

By next month at this time, the simulators will be empty as there are no new hires to go through. By offering the early retirements, it allows for a massive bid to be run with lots of movement across fleets and seats. This is made even larger by the early retirement of the 757/767 and E190. Dozens of wide body seats will have opened, which creates at least 2 openings behind them. There will be thousands of training events with this next bid, and plenty of sim time and instructors to accomplish all of this.

AA is using this time with no new hires to get all of the pilots trained on their new aircraft so when the flying does start back up again, AA is better prepared. One of the biggest problems that it was going to have was the ability to train 1400 new pilots every year in addition to the movement from the E190 and 767 retirements. This crisis has alleviated part of this problem.

When hiring picks up again, the crews from the 767 and 190 will have already been retrained, the old fleets will have been retired, and quite a few of the retirements will already be out of the way.

This is actually a really good strategy for the future. (And no, the early retirements can not come back, even if they and the company want them to).

No, it wasn't just a little harsh. It was overly broad, arrogant, but mostly ignorant.

I can't believe the things I've heard from some of our junior pilots. So many have no clue of what has happened in this business since deregulation. Many know little about airline history and how the current US system came about. So many have just rolled their eyes when those that came before them tried to share stories of things like US Airways LOA 93.

The know-it-all attitude amazes me. From initial training, to the line, to life through a crisis.

Hey Armyguy, how long have you been here? You said you got a leave, right? A paid one?

Leaves, except permanent (I think), can be canceled with 30 day notice.

Wont matter, 16 million have filed for unemployment in 3 weeks and it’s going to worse. People that think we will just snap right back (and I mean within 5 YEARS even) are living in fantasy world, wearing rose colored glasses, high on ecstasy. Our group 9 passengers, the ones many on here and on line, look down their nose at........you know the ones that filled our planes to capacity....yeah, they are the ones that will be hit the most by this. Your service worker, self-employed. They are a big part of that 16 million. The economy and the fallout is going make the reaction to the virus make look like buffoons and the suffering that will ensue will be much worse then anything this virus would’ve cause. SHEEPLE.....that’s all I have to say

Seniority doesn’t matter when it comes to idiots. Please tell me you saw the post on the arena where the old guy said the VPLOAs should pay 70 hours. Company pays the first 55 and the other 15 would be paid by the junior guys, because we have had such an awesome ride lol.

It’s funny. When i first started at airways i flew with lots of 89 and 99 hires. They have had awful careers as you know. Yet almost all of them were crazy enthusiastic about how i had “hit the lottery” and will have an awesome career. You’d think of all people those dudes would know how quick things can change.

Those that were flying on 911 remember how hard it was to get a job after. Bankruptcies. Then age 65. Then the mergers. Now this...
At least I got the taste of a non bankruptcy contract for 3 months out of the last 18 years.

You are correct about seniority vs. stupidity. As with the population in general, there are idiots everywhere. But my point is that just because you cannot understand someone's decision, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are idiots.

But more importantly- LEARN FROM THEM! Learn our history. Learn what we did wrong with LOA 93 (we were playing checkers, trying to save the company, while the company was playing chess...and us), learn what was done wrong in SLIs. Learn from personal stories and if they made mistakes, try to avoid them. I learned so much from the former Braniff pilots I flew with at Piedmont/USAir.

I told my son who is a pilot-I often think I learned the most from the worst captains I flew with.

When I started with Piedmont (the one that started in '48 with DC-3s, not the current one) I was told that I would be a F-28 captain in 2 years, Boeing in 3 and retire as #1 as a gazillionaire. None have come true and unless I hit a lottery, none will.

My point of asking Armyguy his longevity was not that it matters as to his opinion, but in all the crises I've been through at the airlines, I've never seen a junior pilot get paid to stay at home. Something to consider when throwing stones at the senior who are not taking a leave. And, someone has to fly the airplanes, as long as we keep some in the air.

April 15 Pay Statement
 

Have you all seen the pay statement yet for the 15th?

Mine hasn't posted yet, but I don't expect to see it until tomorrow.

I just finally got back to my old pre-merger seniority number from the UAL-CAL merger from 10 years ago. The second lost decade! I’ve only moved up 2,500 seniority numbers in the last 20 years.

Did your relative seniority (%j go up? thats what really matters.

Wasn’t it supposed to be uploaded in Pay Statements on the 11th? This is kinda weird. I hope there are no “other” surprises. This place never ceases to amaze me.

I've never heard that, but it seems to me I've seen the stub post as late as two days prior to payday before, even back in my LUS Paperless Pay days. And then sometimes it posts 5 days prior when the payday is over a weekend or holiday. Can't seem to make heads or tails of it. But like you said, nothing surprises me - as long as the moolah shows up on the 15th!

The calendar that was posted by AA showed pay statements visible on the 10th.

I forget where I saw it, but there was a chart that showed all the pay stub availability dates in Epays. They were all two days prior to pay day (13th or 28th) for 2020, except one or two. Those outliers were only a day or so different. It should be there on the 13th.

No it went down after the merger, they put 800 pilots senior to me who were younger, and instead of retiring at #300 I will be about #1100. And since our fleets weren’t relatively the same, losing relative % hurt even worse.

That chart shows the 10th of April. Anyways, maybe we’ll see it tomorrow.

I see that now; sorry. I guess I misremembered it.

Imagine that.

I started in 2014 on the Airways side and heard that from almost every guy i flew with, and still heard it up until about 3 weeks ago. I took it as a compliment and them being genuinely excited for me and my career possibilities. I think they were just really excited that maybe, just maybe someone could have the career that they and everyone of us dreams of. They werent being ignorant to the past, or blind to the possibilities of something tragic happening, rather just pumping you up to have a great trip...would you rather fly with guys that ***** about the terrible stuff from the past all the time?? Doesn't mean it didnt happen just means maybe those guys chose to not let it drag them down anymore. Hats off to the CLT CAs i fly with, they consistently have some of the best attitudes of anyone I've flown with and most are in the group you mentioned.

Yup. Thanks to all the dudes that have had tough careers and hearing their stories.... We've been non stop saving/investing as much as we can for times just like this.

Oh no i didn’t mean to say they were naive or anything for saying that. I would much rather fly with someone positive than a debbie downer. I guess my point was there’s no guarantees in this industry, or any for that matter.

15 more early outs for September.

Not a really huge number, but every bit helps.....

How many is that total for you guys?


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"nearly 800" is the official count from the company. I really dont feel like counting the list.

Thank you. So around 5%-6% of the list? Does that include the long term leaves? Or just retirements?


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permanent leaves of absenses.

the 800 or so number is just retirements, about 5,000 or so on short term LOAs, 1, 3, and 6 month varieties...someone with better numbers could correct me but that's what i have seen/read.

Much appreciated. Was just curious. Figured your numbers may be predictive of what will happen at our company.


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TOTAL pilots per month on any type (Unpaid, Permanent, Short Term) leave without the August bid posted/included yet:

6/2020 = 5009 (17, 735, 4257)
7/2020 = 4835 (31, 716, 4088)
8/2020 = 3445 (28, 692, 2725)
9/2020 = 2990 (28, 674, 2288)
10/2020 = 1696 (20, 652, 1024)
11/2020 = 1200 (19, 622, 559)
12/2020 = 779 (18, 602, 159)
01/2021 = 600 (16, 584, 0)

You’ll notice the middle numbers go down, and that’s due to the Permanent leave pilots reaching age 65 and no longer on a leave program, if that is confusing anyone.

These numbers also do not include the regular mandatory retirements for the remainder of the year which are an additional 274 as of 6/18/2020. Add roughly another 10% to that 274 for medical outs, early retirements, and misc departures from our ranks. Also, those (274 + 10%) pilots could be on Short Term leave until retirement too. Someone smarter may have those stats available.