APA
09-12-2020, 11:00 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
Originally Posted by AAL24
where is my lack of understanding? The top 1/3rd will make 70 hours, middle third 50 hours and bottom third 30 hours. Those are huge cuts. There is no “absolute end date.” The snap back is tied to 2019 revenue numbers. What if it takes United 5 years to reach 2019 levels? What about 10 years? Nobody knows when business travel will recover to pre-Covid levels.
And yes, your beliefs are 100% disgusting. Kill off the weak so that the strong may feast.
09-12-2020, 11:02 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Limiting someone’s pay to 50 or 30 hours is effectively a paycut regardless of whether or not the hourly rate has changed. I don’t see how you can’t label that a cut in pay.
Furloughs suck and I respect the fact that you have strong feelings on the matter. But someone who has 20 years of seniority can plan their expenses based on the assumption that they won’t have to cut their take home pay 50%. I’m not convinced they should happily agree to a massive compensation hit to save the job of someone with 1-3 years of seniority. Those are the realities of our industry. I don’t think 200k/year is living “lavishly.”
Furloughs suck and I respect the fact that you have strong feelings on the matter. But someone who has 20 years of seniority can plan their expenses based on the assumption that they won’t have to cut their take home pay 50%. I’m not convinced they should happily agree to a massive compensation hit to save the job of someone with 1-3 years of seniority. Those are the realities of our industry. I don’t think 200k/year is living “lavishly.”
09-12-2020, 11:07 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by daOldMan
You really have no idea how UAL's program is set up, and it shows. Besides having an absolute end date, they can not just keep the airline smaller on purpose for 10 years.
Wouldn't it be better to not furlough any of the young guys, and still have a good airline? Isn't that the point?
People like you that talk about your past furloughs have learned nothing.
If one pilot is furloughed, APA has failed. Period.
Wouldn't it be better to not furlough any of the young guys, and still have a good airline? Isn't that the point?
People like you that talk about your past furloughs have learned nothing.
If one pilot is furloughed, APA has failed. Period.
If one pilot is furloughed, our nations leadership has failed. Many countries got their outbreaks under control early but the bickering at the highest levels ruined it for everyone. Effective leadership starting at the top is severely lacking.
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09-12-2020, 11:10 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by daOldMan
This is not correct at all, and you have missed several important parts. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
And yes, your beliefs are 100% disgusting. Kill off the weak so that the strong may feast.
And yes, your beliefs are 100% disgusting. Kill off the weak so that the strong may feast.
Have you ever been furloughed? I’ve been furloughed multiple times with 9 years spent on furlough. It sucks. I just think it’s a sad reality of life as a pilot.
09-12-2020, 11:14 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
For what it’s worth I think the ZTL option was a bad move by APA. It creates a zero cost sub-reserve group of pilots and makes it easy for the company to hold off on recalls. Instead of calling back pilots they have 500+ that cost nothing and can pick up any slack.
09-12-2020, 11:16 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
Originally Posted by AAL24
I’m happy to be corrected. Tell me the important parts I’m missing? Maybe I misunderstood the TA. A ban on open time and premium trips with pilots on furlough is appropriate in my opinion.
Have you ever been furloughed? I’ve been furloughed multiple times with 9 years spent on furlough. It sucks. I just think it’s a sad reality of life as a pilot.
Have you ever been furloughed? I’ve been furloughed multiple times with 9 years spent on furlough. It sucks. I just think it’s a sad reality of life as a pilot.
People like you are the problem. "I just think it’s a sad reality of life as a pilot". This statement right here is the problem. Anyone that says things like this is disgusting. That is like saying "Cancer sucks...but we shouldn't try to find a cure".
Welcome to the future, where the other airlines are showing you the way how it should be done. Good job to all of the other airline Unions that are doing everything that they can to prevent furloughs. Shame on APA and people like you.
09-12-2020, 11:19 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,093
Originally Posted by AAL24
Limiting someone’s pay to 50 or 30 hours is effectively a paycut regardless of whether or not the hourly rate has changed. I don’t see how you can’t label that a cut in pay.
Furloughs suck and I respect the fact that you have strong feelings on the matter. But someone who has 20 years of seniority can plan their expenses based on the assumption that they won’t have to cut their take home pay 50%. I’m not convinced they should happily agree to a massive compensation hit to save the job of someone with 1-3 years of seniority. Those are the realities of our industry. I don’t think 200k/year is living “lavishly.”
Furloughs suck and I respect the fact that you have strong feelings on the matter. But someone who has 20 years of seniority can plan their expenses based on the assumption that they won’t have to cut their take home pay 50%. I’m not convinced they should happily agree to a massive compensation hit to save the job of someone with 1-3 years of seniority. Those are the realities of our industry. I don’t think 200k/year is living “lavishly.”
Honestly it just sounds like you are trying to make excuses for not wanting to save everyone you can even when the company wants to as well.
09-12-2020, 11:21 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
I’m not sure where I said I wish furlough upon anyone. Obviously I don’t. I’ve lost money, my home, etc during past furloughs.
I just don’t agree with you that this option is necessarily a good one. management is always one step ahead in these creative concessions. It needs to be looked at from all angles. Clearly you are too emotional to debate the merits. The “shame on you” “100% disgusting” rhetoric is not helpful. But if you need to vent go ahead.
I just don’t agree with you that this option is necessarily a good one. management is always one step ahead in these creative concessions. It needs to be looked at from all angles. Clearly you are too emotional to debate the merits. The “shame on you” “100% disgusting” rhetoric is not helpful. But if you need to vent go ahead.
09-12-2020, 11:25 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by Name User
Well a 50% cut isn't a 50% cut to take home, without doing the math it's probably like 30%. And 30% is a lot easier to budget than 100% especially in a world where there are zero jobs anywhere near even that lowered income level so I don't really understand that logic.
Honestly it just sounds like you are trying to make excuses for not wanting to save everyone you can even when the company wants to as well.
Honestly it just sounds like you are trying to make excuses for not wanting to save everyone you can even when the company wants to as well.
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