450knotOffice

Agreed.

Way back when, I got a furlough notice. It sucked. I had a few months to look forward to it. Then it happened. I was furloughed.

I don’t ever remember thinking “Damn, those senior guys could have sacrificed something to save MY job.” It was literally never a thought in my mind. I was junior, the company downsized, I was furloughed. It sucked, but seemed plausible and normal to me.

Today, some pilots want to vilify anybody on the list (“the APA”, which is all of us, really) who aren’t on the current list to be furloughed, because, “damnit, they should’ve done something, anything, to save my job. Screw the union and those senior (read, anyone senior to me) pilots for not sacrificing themselves for me.”

Sorry, Sanicom, as a former furloughee who literally never even comprehended that furloughs were another pilots fault, I don’t buy into your “it’s all the senior AA pilots (APA) fault I’m being furloughed” mentality, which you’ve clearly intimated over and over again in your countless posts about the (probable) impending furlough.

The airline is hemorrhaging money every day. It is in survival mode. If it comes down to me, then I get it - I’ll be furloughed. I’m not going to blame the union, and I certainly won’t blame my fellow pilots.

But whatever, Sanicom, you do you. Because apparently it’s all about you.

Route66

if you get rid of seniority and furlough the senior guys then it will happen. This group...heck...these pilot groups in the nation are in battle against themselves. Keep ploughing the barren fields because pilots will NEVER WIN.

ACEssXfer

It’s entirely possible that AA will be the only major to furlough.(right now)

It seems most other pilots in the country disagree with you.

Saabs

Is delta not furloughing anymore?

SilentLurker

His statement would sound great in a different reality! It’s 2020 not 2001.

DAL, UAL, JetBlue, SouthWest, Spirit, etc... literally 90+ % of carriers have come to a deal with management to avoid furlough, including a few REGIONAL feed carriers such as Republic.

He’s failed to realize AAdvantage, UAL Milage, and DAL loyalty programs (again, AAdvantage) are worth more than the company’s entire valuation back in 2001).

Haha, some people are out of touch with reality. Unity is key to coming out of this stronger. Why is it that OTHER carrier groups have figured that out.

Lucifer

Just curious.
Did not the federal government cover all salaries until October 1st? So, your company, which was still flying albeit a reduced schedule, had free labor the past several months, correct?
Did they not save from free labor the past several months?
Did they not save on all the gas they did not burn?
Did they not save on all the hotels they did not have to buy?
Did they not save on all the landing fees?
Did they not save on all the gate/ramp/parking fees?
Did they not save on all the consumables that were not used?

They saved all that, yet they have to furlough the very day the federal salary protection stops?
That sounds more like a negotiations tactic then an actual financial necessity; especially with demand slowly steadily returning... and the Max still parked.
How many of the other carriers simply used the opportunity to get concessions?

Given the history of your management team, unless they opened the books t allow a financial review from trained experienced accountants; I'd ignore all of their hype. Go ahead, let them be the ONLY airline in the entire USA to furlough. See how that goes over in the new normal of social media. They'll be the most hated management on the planet.... if they already aren't. The BOD will have their heads for the brand damage alone.

I'm just an outsider looking in; so I may be way way off.... but given the history of AA, I don't think I'm far off. It looks more and more like a case of don't let a good disaster go to waste.

Cicada

You must have had your eyes wide shut during those furloughs. The regionals didn't back down one bit during Airways last struggle. No virus, but very similar cash strapped operation where another CEO did a ridiculous stock buyback at $64 a share. It went to 0.
But your senior MEC found it in them to allow a huge outsourcing of jobs which grew PSA and MESA to huge operator status with large jets. Same MEC greenlighted Potomac Air ( to be owned by Wolfs' pal Robert Johnson) which grew to Mid Atlantic then morphed right into Republic. E175 carrier as you know. Jets purchased by USAirways. Those Mid Atlantic pilots got a supreme hose job courtesy of the senior pilots who barely blinked when it went down. I'm not one of them. Voted NO every time. In fact I never lost my Capt seat. But it was a real eye opener to see those MESA 70 seat jets show up in CLT and blow every 737 off the C gates. The Airways pilots literally watched every bit of short haul flying they did with 737 s walk away to PSA and others. The regional gates at CLT expanded exponentially. No virus, no downturn in demand. It was all simply outsourced. And it put you on the street.
AA pilots need to get together and work harder to mitigate these virus driven furloughs. It can be done.

Gone Flying

As of right now they still are. 1941 got furlough notices then the company said they would reduce that number by 220 if the union allows certain voluntary measures. The company has proposed something to our NC that would mitigate all furloughs and will be briefing our MEC tomorrow, we will see if that goes anywhere. As of right now 1721 pilots at DL are out of a job in 9 days.

if the UAL deal passes I think it’s just AA, DL and maybe frontier that will furlough pilots in 2020

Name User

I agree but only to a point. Back then management did not want to save furloughs. It was cut and dry.

Today, they do. And we aren't giving anything up contractually to do so. There are no concessions on the table per APA. APA BOD made a choice, 20-0, to make this voluntary only. The problem with voluntary only is, the company can't plan on that. So, they couldn't agree.

Of course, it may not even matter the way things are going. Another 5000 could be on the street come next summer, or heck all 14,000 of us.

It's also very possible mergers will happen. The more folks on property at each carrier, the better everyone ends up. Remember, an intact AWA merged with US Airways and resulted in a huge disparity in seniority numbers. The same could happen here (again). Not thinking about this almost makes the APA derelict in their duty of representation.

thrust

Wasn’t that the point of the 6 month recall as part of the LOAs?