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52Flyer 09-05-2021 05:45 AM


Originally Posted by Ruff226 (Post 3290668)
Has anyone been invited to interview since they have re-opened their website for applications?

Not that I've heard and I've been watching several different forums and inerview prep groups. Word on the street is that previous CJOs and WO flows will be taking the most of the slots through the end of the year. I hope to be wrong but anecdotally I haven't heard anything back yet.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

FlyGuy2021 09-05-2021 06:01 AM


Originally Posted by 52Flyer (Post 3290721)
Not that I've heard and I've been watching several different forums and inerview prep groups. Word on the street is that previous CJOs and WO flows will be taking the most of the slots through the end of the year. I hope to be wrong but anecdotally I haven't heard anything back yet.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

AA has said that they will start interviewing in mid to late October again. But could change.

Not sure that the CJO pool that they are planning on to reach the 350 number this year is going to work out very well. Many with prior CJOs now either have a class date at another airline or have recently been invited for an interview. Two pilots from my former squadron have CJOs at AA but just got the interview invite from Delta. Given a choice of the two, Delta is a much better option for them. Another pilot has already started class at United but is expecting AA to give him a class date in the next few weeks (which he is going to turn down).

MartyM 09-05-2021 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021 (Post 3290725)
Two pilots from my former squadron have CJOs at AA but just got the interview invite from Delta. Given a choice of the two, Delta is a much better option for them.

Yep, is a bit of moving around. I think AA waited too long to get things moving and opened the door for other airlines to grab their CJO holders before they started.



Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021 (Post 3290725)
Another pilot has already started class at United but is expecting AA to give him a class date in the next few weeks (which he is going to turn down).

If he's already started and has no intention of going to AA, why wait? Just send them an email instead of playing games.

Tjeff 09-05-2021 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021 (Post 3290725)
AA has said that they will start interviewing in mid to late October again. But could change.

Not sure that the CJO pool that they are planning on to reach the 350 number this year is going to work out very well. Many with prior CJOs now either have a class date at another airline or have recently been invited for an interview. Two pilots from my former squadron have CJOs at AA but just got the interview invite from Delta. Given a choice of the two, Delta is a much better option for them. Another pilot has already started class at United but is expecting AA to give him a class date in the next few weeks (which he is going to turn down).

There are people that interviewed early February getting October dates. A lot of people who have started the interview process are waiting to interview also. So many of the 350 slots are taken by the flow, I unfortunately doubt that many, if any people who didn’t start the interview process pre pandemic will be getting in before next year, maybe some will start interviewing but they were sending out videos and doing 30-40 interviews a day. A lot of those people who had/completed videos I’m sure and hope would be first.

52Flyer 09-05-2021 08:19 AM

How does the flow contract work for AA? Is it a certain number of slots per year? A certain percentage?

chrisreedrules 09-05-2021 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by MartyM (Post 3290730)
If he's already started and has no intention of going to AA, why wait? Just send them an email instead of playing games.

Oh just wait until flows from the WOs go to class at AA to receive their $70,000 bonus and then resign within a few weeks to start class at United, Delta, or FedEx.

TransWorld 09-05-2021 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 3290779)
Oh just wait until flows from the WOs go to class at AA to receive their $70,000 bonus and then resign within a few weeks to start class at United, Delta, or FedEx.

Is there a payback provision for minimum time at AA?

TransWorld 09-05-2021 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by MartyM (Post 3290730)
I think AA waited too long to get things moving and opened the door for other airlines to grab their CJO holders before they started.

AA really had no choice. Through the end of August the schoolhouse was full with furloughed pilots doing requals. There was no room, literally, in the simulators for any new hires.

But seriously 09-05-2021 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3290870)
AA really had no choice. Through the end of August the schoolhouse was full with furloughed pilots doing requals. There was no room, literally, in the simulators for any new hires.

By Jul/Aug AA had no choice, but that was only because of bad staffing decisions they made earlier. They waited WAY too long to recall the furloughs (as evidenced by canceling flights all summer due to staffing). They probably shouldn’t have furloughed anyone to begin with, but that was at least a tough call. By Dec/Jan/Feb it was obvious they needed to be recalling those people. When did the first recalls start training? April?

chrisreedrules 09-05-2021 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3290869)
Is there a payback provision for minimum time at AA?

No. <filler>

TransWorld 09-05-2021 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by But seriously (Post 3290894)
By Jul/Aug AA had no choice, but that was only because of bad staffing decisions they made earlier. They waited WAY too long to recall the furloughs (as evidenced by canceling flights all summer due to staffing). They probably shouldn’t have furloughed anyone to begin with, but that was at least a tough call. By Dec/Jan/Feb it was obvious they needed to be recalling those people. When did the first recalls start training? April?

…and the Monday morning quarterback always completes the pass.

Seriously, first of 2021 I was saying loads this summer would be 70% to 80% of 2019. That is what the industry turned out to have. I was ridiculed and told I was making foolishly high predictions, by almost all the pilots here. The majority of the pilots were predicting, on here, AA was going to declare bankruptcy.

In that environment it is easy to see AA management was trying to conserve cash, was overly conservative, and was overly slow to respond. They were making the same call the pilots on here were.

dera 09-05-2021 08:53 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3290972)
…and the Monday morning quarterback always completes the pass.

Seriously, first of 2021 I was saying loads this summer would be 70% to 80% of 2019. That is what the industry turned out to have. I was ridiculed and told I was making foolishly high predictions, by almost all the pilots here. The majority of the pilots were predicting, on here, AA was going to declare bankruptcy.

In that environment it is easy to see AA management was trying to conserve cash, was overly conservative, and was overly slow to respond. They were making the same call the pilots on here were.

Loads are really a useless metric though. They might have had 70 to 80% loads, but yields were what, 40%? of 2019.

TransWorld 09-05-2021 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3291022)
Loads are really a useless metric though. They might have had 70 to 80% loads, but yields were what, 40%? of 2019.

Initially, in the spring, the ticket prices were artificially low. As we got into summer, I heard friends complain, “what happened to all those cheap seats they were talking about?” They seem to be gone. Seems like yields are back closer to that of 2019.

dera 09-05-2021 11:33 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3291031)
Initially, in the spring, the ticket prices were artificially low. As we got into summer, I heard friends complain, “what happened to all those cheap seats they were talking about?” They seem to be gone. Seems like yields are back closer to that of 2019.

I prefer data and metrics over anecdotal experience to look at this.

In Q2 2019, AAG flew 62.658 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 17.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 15.22.
In Q2 2021, AAG flew 42.022 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 15.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 12.00.

International, in Q2 2019 AAG had 21.181 million revenue passenger miles, in Q2 2021, it was 7.151. The international flying is still totally flatlined at 30% from pre-COVID numbers.

That is a massive drop. This is why without PSP AAG would have lost 1.1 billion in Q2 2021. And Q3 is looking a lot worse with further shutdowns from lunatic governments.

Covid is a gift that keeps on giving, and it's far from over.

Al Czervik 09-06-2021 05:30 AM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3291041)
I prefer data and metrics over anecdotal experience to look at this.

In Q2 2019, AAG flew 62.658 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 17.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 15.22.
In Q2 2021, AAG flew 42.022 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 15.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 12.00.

International, in Q2 2019 AAG had 21.181 million revenue passenger miles, in Q2 2021, it was 7.151. The international flying is still totally flatlined at 30% from pre-COVID numbers.

That is a massive drop. This is why without PSP AAG would have lost 1.1 billion in Q2 2021. And Q3 is looking a lot worse with further shutdowns from lunatic governments.

Covid is a gift that keeps on giving, and it's far from over.

everyone who has been a naysayer has been wrong. Wrong about the economy, the airlines and about the virus.

TransWorld 09-06-2021 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3291041)
I prefer data and metrics over anecdotal experience to look at this.

In Q2 2019, AAG flew 62.658 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 17.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 15.22.
In Q2 2021, AAG flew 42.022 million revenue pax miles with a yield of 15.57 cents. Their passenger revenue per ASM was 12.00.

International, in Q2 2019 AAG had 21.181 million revenue passenger miles, in Q2 2021, it was 7.151. The international flying is still totally flatlined at 30% from pre-COVID numbers.

That is a massive drop. This is why without PSP AAG would have lost 1.1 billion in Q2 2021. And Q3 is looking a lot worse with further shutdowns from lunatic governments.

Covid is a gift that keeps on giving, and it's far from over.

Thanks for the data.

Assume this data is for domestic.

Do you have data on ASM for 2Q20?

Do you predict AA or other majors filing for bankupcy?

dera 09-06-2021 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3291216)
Thanks for the data.

Assume this data is for domestic.

Do you have data on ASM for 2Q20?

Do you predict AA or other majors filing for bankupcy?

Those were systemwide numbers.

Predictions are pointless because the system is being manipulated by irrational reactions and responses, and by definition those are impossible to predict.
AA has enough cash to survive a few years of this without the big B. I doubt it's something they seriously consider.

Dobbs18 09-06-2021 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3291022)
Loads are really a useless metric though. They might have had 70 to 80% loads, but yields were what, 40%? of 2019.

If we are talking about AA hiring and pilot staffing, which this thread is about, yields are a useless metric as well. IMHO....AA's game plan from the start of this pandemic has been to try an capture as many paxs as they can at whatever price, "yield", that maybe...they may have done a **** poor job of executing that plan but that's what they set out to do...its why we have been flying a much more robust schedule then our brethren over at DL and UAL...I'd say the results have been mixed at best, but the amount of segments we are flying is way more an indicator of future staffing/hiring needs than the loads or yields AA is generating...as you said it's very hard to predict and just bc the yields are low for certain markets at this time I doubt you see a course correction from AA anytime soon...but I am probably wrong, I just know that we are set to hire 1,350 pilots or so from now through 2022 and I believe that number is more than just attrition.

biigD 09-06-2021 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 3291075)
everyone who has been a naysayer has been wrong. Wrong about the economy, the airlines and about the virus.

I'm a lot more bullish about our future than I was at this time last year, that's for sure! That said this Delta variant has me worried that the international stuff especially isn't going to have the kind of robust recovery that AA was hoping it'd have. Just hope we see the end to this stupid 'spike' soon so we don't backtrack on any of the planned hiring.

El Peso 09-06-2021 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by biigD (Post 3291334)
I'm a lot more bullish about our future than I was at this time last year, that's for sure! That said this Delta variant has me worried that the international stuff especially isn't going to have the kind of robust recovery that AA was hoping it'd have. Just hope we see the end to this stupid 'spike' soon so we don't backtrack on any of the planned hiring.

Just using Israel as a sample group, they have 78% of the population vaccinated. Yet their COVID cases have jumped from 8 per day in June to 9000 per day with this Delta variant. In short, COVID is here to stay. If international boarders are going to close every time there’s a spike, then the international community, and particularity the international business community needs to realize that doing business is going to become a lot more localized.

If the majority of our long haul flying doesn’t return and we do start seeing the older 777s head for the desert, well then we won’t see much career advancement for the time being. Luckily we have massive retirements so no one should be getting furloughed in this new environment. Just a very real possibility that many will have to forget about wide body long-haul flying. All the more reason to shoot for the stars on the next contract as that 737 might be your last stop.

Al Czervik 09-06-2021 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by El Peso (Post 3291358)
Just using Israel as a sample group, they have 78% of the population vaccinated. Yet their COVID cases have jumped from 8 per day in June to 9000 per day with this Delta variant. In short, COVID is here to stay. If international boarders are going to close every time there’s a spike, then the international community, and particularity the international business community needs to realize that doing business is going to become a lot more localized.

If the majority of our long haul flying doesn’t return and we do start seeing the older 777s head for the desert, well then we won’t see much career advancement for the time being. Luckily we have massive retirements so no one should be getting furloughed in this new environment. Just a very real possibility that many will have to forget about wide body long-haul flying. All the more reason to shoot for the stars on the next contract as that 737 might be your last stop.


Agreed. People will eventually wake up and look at the facts.

chrisreedrules 09-06-2021 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 3291360)
Agreed. People will eventually wake up and look at the facts.

Maybe? Look at Australia. They’re locking people up for having their mask off for too long while taking a sip of tea outside their house. I’m amazed at what people will willfully put up with.

biigD 09-06-2021 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by El Peso (Post 3291358)
If the majority of our long haul flying doesn’t return and we do start seeing the older 777s head for the desert, well then we won’t see much career advancement for the time being. Luckily we have massive retirements so no one should be getting furloughed in this new environment. Just a very real possibility that many will have to forget about wide body long-haul flying. All the more reason to shoot for the stars on the next contract as that 737 might be your last stop.

I just bid the 777 to hedge my bets. People ask me why I still fill out those little flight logs, and I tell them it's to keep the furloughs away. Same thing with widebody flying - I figure if I actually go out and do it the airplanes will stick around. ;)

El Peso 09-06-2021 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by biigD (Post 3291367)
I just bid the 777 to hedge my bets. People ask me why I still fill out those little flight logs, and I tell them it's to keep the furloughs away. Same thing with widebody flying - I figure if I actually go out and do it the airplanes will stick around. ;)

Not a bad idea. Check it off your career bucket list now just in case. That way you would’ve been there done that. Worst case scenario you’re back to bouncing around 3 time zones in a narrow body and almost all daytime flying, with no regrets. Remember this when it’s time to vote on the next contract.

Dobbs18 09-06-2021 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 3291364)
Maybe? Look at Australia. They’re locking people up for having their mask off for too long while taking a sip of tea outside their house. I’m amazed at what people will willfully put up with.

Can you imagine what the Australians would think if they watched any college football this weekend?!! My goodness the scary people from Madison, WI to Blacksburg, VA and down to Tallahassee, FL were all shoulder to shoulder killing each other other! Yeah I am over it, be safe and take the precautions that you can but just remember that this is survivable for what, 99% of us. It may sound harsh but at some point we have to get back to life.

NotMrNiceGuy 09-06-2021 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3291398)
Can you imagine what the Australians would think if they watched any college football this weekend?!! My goodness the scary people from Madison, WI to Blacksburg, VA and down to Tallahassee, FL were all shoulder to shoulder killing each other other! Yeah I am over it, be safe and take the precautions that you can but just remember that this is survivable for what, 99% of us. It may sound harsh but at some point we have to get back to life.

It’s only harsh in 2021. Any other time, it would just be sensible.

TransWorld 09-06-2021 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3291398)
Can you imagine what the Australians would think if they watched any college football this weekend?!! My goodness the scary people from Madison, WI to Blacksburg, VA and down to Tallahassee, FL were all shoulder to shoulder killing each other other! Yeah I am over it, be safe and take the precautions that you can but just remember that this is survivable for what, 99% of us. It may sound harsh but at some point we have to get back to life.

I wonder what they thought when several football crowds erupted in a derogatory chant about the US President’s performance. Not meaning to pick an internal fight about politics within the US. Rather, wondering what those from Oz thought.

morerightrudder 09-07-2021 12:13 AM


Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3291398)
Can you imagine what the Australians would think if they watched any college football this weekend?!! My goodness the scary people from Madison, WI to Blacksburg, VA and down to Tallahassee, FL were all shoulder to shoulder killing each other other! Yeah I am over it, be safe and take the precautions that you can but just remember that this is survivable for what, 99% of us. It may sound harsh but at some point we have to get back to life.

Australia's government basically decided they would try to save as many lives as possible, hence their harsh measures.

Interestingly enough, their football matches are still being played with fans in attendance, though the championship is being moved to a city not in lockdown.

America has effectively decided that the current casualty rate (hundreds per day as opposed to thousands) is tolerable in exchange for getting back to normal.

Different approaches.

AllYourBaseAreB 09-07-2021 08:56 AM

It’s back over 1000 deaths a day. 99% survivable is still over 3 million deaths if everyone gets it in this country. The bigger issue is hospitals in areas getting a spike not being able to take in people with other health problems since the beds are full.

Nothing political in this post.

Al Czervik 09-07-2021 09:45 AM


Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB (Post 3291591)
It’s back over 1000 deaths a day. 99% survivable is still over 3 million deaths if everyone gets it in this country. The bigger issue is hospitals in areas getting a spike not being able to take in people with other health problems since the beds are full.

Nothing political in this post.

if someone with diabetes is killed in a car accident is not a death from diabetes. If we start looking at the real numbers I think we could make more informed decisions.

Dobbs18 09-07-2021 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB (Post 3291591)
It’s back over 1000 deaths a day. 99% survivable is still over 3 million deaths if everyone gets it in this country. The bigger issue is hospitals in areas getting a spike not being able to take in people with other health problems since the beds are full.

Nothing political in this post.

I am happy and confident enough to say I will take those odds…I am in the 17-49 year old crowd which has an even higher chance of survival plus I am not over weight, don’t smoke, and have no other pre-existing conditions which further pushes me to the survivable column, oh and I got the vaccine…COVID isn’t going to disappear because we all wear mask, we have to learn to live with it and move on…again harsh for some but what’s the alternative? Live like hermits for the rest of our lives? No thanks, I’ll take the vaccine and my 99%+ chances and move on…per the CDC Heart disease and Cancer kill twice that many, EACH! on the daily in the US, have we adjusted our lives that radically for those ailments? If we did, smoking would be illegal, drinking too, fast food would be illegal, along with sugary drinks…hell most months accidents kill more people than COVID, guess we shouldn’t drive either…get that vaccine don’t get the vaccine, it’s like choosing to smoke, or drive without a seatbelt, or text while driving…most will live longer by choosing to not do those things but some will do those things and still out live the others…I don’t want to get COVID or have anyone in my family get it, but life is full of risks and I won’t let fear rule over me. The data says I (and most others) have a near 100% chance of survival, what more do you need? As far as beds full…don’t know the solution to that..I do know there is ALOT of misinformation out there so be careful what you read and interpret as fact.

Dobbs18 09-07-2021 06:29 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3291455)
I wonder what they thought when several football crowds erupted in a derogatory chant about the US President’s performance. Not meaning to pick an internal fight about politics within the US. Rather, wondering what those from Oz thought.

maybe you should got to Australia and ask them? I saw a couple of the vids of these and it seemed like very small sections out of the stadiums doing it, not like it was 80,000+ in unison doing it….people booed Trump all the time, free speech man, it’s one of the great things about the US.

AllYourBaseAreB 09-07-2021 08:21 PM


Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3291729)
I am happy and confident enough to say I will take those odds…I am in the 17-49 year old crowd which has an even higher chance of survival plus I am not over weight, don’t smoke, and have no other pre-existing conditions which further pushes me to the survivable column, oh and I got the vaccine…COVID isn’t going to disappear because we all wear mask, we have to learn to live with it and move on…again harsh for some but what’s the alternative? Live like hermits for the rest of our lives? No thanks, I’ll take the vaccine and my 99%+ chances and move on…per the CDC Heart disease and Cancer kill twice that many, EACH! on the daily in the US, have we adjusted our lives that radically for those ailments? If we did, smoking would be illegal, drinking too, fast food would be illegal, along with sugary drinks…hell most months accidents kill more people than COVID, guess we shouldn’t drive either…get that vaccine don’t get the vaccine, it’s like choosing to smoke, or drive without a seatbelt, or text while driving…most will live longer by choosing to not do those things but some will do those things and still out live the others…I don’t want to get COVID or have anyone in my family get it, but life is full of risks and I won’t let fear rule over me. The data says I (and most others) have a near 100% chance of survival, what more do you need? As far as beds full…don’t know the solution to that..I do know there is ALOT of misinformation out there so be careful what you read and interpret as fact.

not sure how my 4 sentences caused you to write all that. Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

Al Czervik 09-08-2021 12:45 AM


Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB (Post 3291821)
not sure how my 4 sentences caused you to write all that. Who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

He posts facts and this is your rebuttal?

AllYourBaseAreB 09-08-2021 03:47 AM


Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 3291842)
He posts facts and this is your rebuttal?

he didn’t rebut anything I wrote. I feel no need to address people’s “feelings” or personal risk tolerances. Just thought it was an interesting reaction.

Goose Lives 09-08-2021 08:50 AM

Hey yall,

3500TT
519 PIC/ 250 TPIC
3000 ME
Instructor at my last regional
Currently on the 76 at an ACMI
4-year degree and finishing my Masters July 2022
Lots of current and past volunteer work
Only one check ride failure (Private initial)
One internal letter of rec submitted so far

I know I'm low on the time and TPIC side, but any ideas what else I'm missing or need? I've been updating hours daily also.

Dobbs18 09-08-2021 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Goose Lives (Post 3291964)
Hey yall,

3500TT
519 PIC/ 250 TPIC
3000 ME
Instructor at my last regional
Currently on the 76 at an ACMI
4-year degree and finishing my Masters July 2022
Lots of current and past volunteer work
Only one check ride failure (Private initial)
One internal letter of rec submitted so far

I know I'm low on the time and TPIC side, but any ideas what else I'm missing or need? I've been updating hours daily also.

I would say that looks very competitive...If you can snag some more internal recs do that. Other than that I would say it's just a waiting game, one of the big 3 will bite on you app soon so just keep the faith. I have no doubt internal recs pushed me through the door as I had nothing overly outstanding on my resume other than that. This was also 7+ years ago and I did have over 1200hrs TPIC at the time for what it's worth.

Goose Lives 09-09-2021 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3291976)
I would say that looks very competitive...If you can snag some more internal recs do that. Other than that I would say it's just a waiting game, one of the big 3 will bite on you app soon so just keep the faith. I have no doubt internal recs pushed me through the door as I had nothing overly outstanding on my resume other than that. This was also 7+ years ago and I did have over 1200hrs TPIC at the time for what it's worth.

Good to hear, thanks man

Maverick714 09-09-2021 06:05 PM

I've heard some rumors that AA isn't going to be hiring from any WO with the new bonuses coming out and making WO pilots wait for the flow? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

mketch11 09-09-2021 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by Maverick714 (Post 3292906)
I've heard some rumors that AA isn't going to be hiring from any WO with the new bonuses coming out and making WO pilots wait for the flow? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Not like they would announce that publicly if they did. If WO street hires drop to zero over the next year I’ll be looking for a lawsuit.


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