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AA Hiring?

Old 07-17-2021, 06:25 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Happyflyer View Post
The flow agreement actually says they have to meet all of AA’s new hire requirements, and it says AA can change the new hire requirements.

If AA required 6,000TPIC for all new hires they would have to have 6,000TPIC to flow.

If AA said all new hires have to have a perfect training record, all the flow pilots would have to have a perfect training record to flow.

The agreement only exempts the requirement of a college degree, and an interview. Any other requirement AA places on new hires is also mandatory for flow pilots.
Sorry but this is laughable considering that AA minimum qualifications are an ATP, first class medical, pass a background check, speak English, right to work in the US, and have a passport.
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Old 07-17-2021, 07:03 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
The flow isn’t really great for new hires at the American wholly owned regionals. It’s not even a carrot at this point because the percentage of flows relative to the size of the wholly owned regionals makes it a non-factor. And honestly we’re seeing new-hires with 1500-2500 hours, plus military fixed wing and helo guys, and the occasional 91/135 or prior 121 experience. Covid paused a lot so it allowed pilots to build experience. The flow is silly in and of itself. It would be my wish that the legacies would resorb the 76 seat flying.
i wonder what you have to have in your resume to get a call from AA with 2500 hours… 6000 hours later and multiple reccs and experience flying every fleet type AA currently operates minus the airbus, still no joy for me.. Still staying hopeful..
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Old 07-17-2021, 08:12 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by mukalel View Post
i wonder what you have to have in your resume to get a call from AA with 2500 hours… 6000 hours later and multiple reccs and experience flying every fleet type AA currently operates minus the airbus, still no joy for me.. Still staying hopeful..
Probably have an F-something or C-something that you flew in a previous career. I know plenty who have been hired outside the flow from the wholly owneds. They worked extremely hard to make it happen. I’m not saying you aren’t, but there are certainly networking strategies that seem to work more than others.
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Old 07-17-2021, 03:30 PM
  #234  
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The mistake a lot of people make when talking about hiring practices of the major airlines is thinking they are looking for the most experienced candidates. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
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Old 07-17-2021, 04:28 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by sanicom3205 View Post
The mistake a lot of people make when talking about hiring practices of the major airlines is thinking they are looking for the most experienced candidates. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
This. Often most experienced are least desirable. Long time regional CAs with no recent type rides for example.
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Old 07-17-2021, 06:00 PM
  #236  
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What I'm told is that they want to see "career advancement'. So after a few years, regional captains ideally should be moving up to Check Airman, instructor, or something else with greater responsibility.

At my regional, the average time from CKA status to leaving for a major was 6-9 months.
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Old 07-17-2021, 08:35 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by mukalel View Post
i wonder what you have to have in your resume to get a call from AA with 2500 hours… 6000 hours later and multiple reccs and experience flying every fleet type AA currently operates minus the airbus, still no joy for me.. Still staying hopeful..
As was pointed out previously, most of the pilots being hired with 2500 hours TT have military backgrounds. Also, it's not just about total time.

Take this for what it's worth, but this was told to me at my US Airways interview over 7 years ago by the former CLT Chief Pilot...I'm ex-military, and I was hired with about 3,500 hours total. But they didn't care how many hours I had. He pointed out the experience I had as an instructor and flight examiner on turbine airplanes, formal training unit (FTU) experience, worked as chief of flying safety for several organizations, was an assistant director of operations, assistant chief pilot and a number of other things.

Most of us just want to get hired and fly the line. But look at it from an employer's point of view. This former chief pilot (Bruce Galleron for those of you that knew him) told me people with a resume that included check airman, chief pilot, director of operations, safety experience, etc, were indicators that the candidate would not only be suitable for flying the line, but also potential for various other roles in the company, ie, check airmen, fleet captains, training managers, safety folks, and so on.

There will be times when airlines just need to hire whoever has an ATP, a safe record, and a pulse. But most of the time, major airlines can be somewhat picky in who they hire. It's important that all you guys/gals working for regionals, corporate operators and 135 outfits understand that just logging hours and collecting type ratings isn't going to be super attractive to major airlines. Become a check airman at your company. Work in training. Serve as an interview pilot. Become your 135 operator's director of operations or chief pilot. Ask to handle your corporate operator's safety program.

Those are the things that will always be valuable additions to your resume, and it's a major reason why military guys tend to get hired with so few hours. The training the military provides is very good, but it's the fact that military pilots are also military officers and often wind up working desk jobs in addition to flying that rounds out their resumes. This isn't to get into a mil vs civilian argument, I'm just trying to provide some feedback that was given to me by a major airline interviewer. I lose track of the number of pilots out there getting on internet forums upset that they have ten billion hours and dozens of type ratings but never get a call. But when you get past the hours in their logbook, all they've ever done was fly the line. Nothing wrong with that, but when major airlines can afford to be choosy, they aren't going to pick you.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:02 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Hueypilot View Post
As was pointed out previously, most of the pilots being hired with 2500 hours TT have military backgrounds. Also, it's not just about total time.

Take this for what it's worth, but this was told to me at my US Airways interview over 7 years ago by the former CLT Chief Pilot...I'm ex-military, and I was hired with about 3,500 hours total. But they didn't care how many hours I had. He pointed out the experience I had as an instructor and flight examiner on turbine airplanes, formal training unit (FTU) experience, worked as chief of flying safety for several organizations, was an assistant director of operations, assistant chief pilot and a number of other things.

Most of us just want to get hired and fly the line. But look at it from an employer's point of view. This former chief pilot (Bruce Galleron for those of you that knew him) told me people with a resume that included check airman, chief pilot, director of operations, safety experience, etc, were indicators that the candidate would not only be suitable for flying the line, but also potential for various other roles in the company, ie, check airmen, fleet captains, training managers, safety folks, and so on.

There will be times when airlines just need to hire whoever has an ATP, a safe record, and a pulse. But most of the time, major airlines can be somewhat picky in who they hire. It's important that all you guys/gals working for regionals, corporate operators and 135 outfits understand that just logging hours and collecting type ratings isn't going to be super attractive to major airlines. Become a check airman at your company. Work in training. Serve as an interview pilot. Become your 135 operator's director of operations or chief pilot. Ask to handle your corporate operator's safety program.

Those are the things that will always be valuable additions to your resume, and it's a major reason why military guys tend to get hired with so few hours. The training the military provides is very good, but it's the fact that military pilots are also military officers and often wind up working desk jobs in addition to flying that rounds out their resumes. This isn't to get into a mil vs civilian argument, I'm just trying to provide some feedback that was given to me by a major airline interviewer. I lose track of the number of pilots out there getting on internet forums upset that they have ten billion hours and dozens of type ratings but never get a call. But when you get past the hours in their logbook, all they've ever done was fly the line. Nothing wrong with that, but when major airlines can afford to be choosy, they aren't going to pick you.
You may be right, and they probably do it, but this is dumb. At the end of the day, they need people to move the sacks of flour from one city to the next. A pilot with a ton of PIC jet hours and a bunch of type ratings has proven they can do that. If they have survived that long in this industry, they probably have the technical skills, CRM, and ability to pass training the majors are looking for. But instead, they keep moving the goal posts with these asinine qualifiers. Not everyone gets to be a management pilot. Those who think you just apply and get those jobs have probably never held them. On most properties, you have to kiss a lot of ass and play golf or drink with the right people to get those jobs. Some people are locked out of this jobs because of who they are, or because they don't look like the people doing the hiring. So they're worthless things to grade people on. It doesn't give you better pilots, it gives you pilots who the day they get off probation, start captaining from the right seat. Who wants to spend 4 days with that? I'd rather have the line pilot who moves the freight. Who was out dealing with bad weather, not sitting at a desk or flying a sim. They are actually looking for pilots, right? sometimes I wonder. Another thing to think about: management pilots tend to feel sympathy for the company at contract time. No wonder they seek out these individuals.

And before someone hands me sour grapes, I'm not looking for a job, I'm good where I am. Just something I've noticed after decades in this industry.
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:25 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Margaritaville View Post
You may be right, and they probably do it, but this is dumb. At the end of the day, they need people to move the sacks of flour from one city to the next. A pilot with a ton of PIC jet hours and a bunch of type ratings has proven they can do that. If they have survived that long in this industry, they probably have the technical skills, CRM, and ability to pass training the majors are looking for. But instead, they keep moving the goal posts with these asinine qualifiers. Not everyone gets to be a management pilot. Those who think you just apply and get those jobs have probably never held them. On most properties, you have to kiss a lot of ass and play golf or drink with the right people to get those jobs. Some people are locked out of this jobs because of who they are, or because they don't look like the people doing the hiring. So they're worthless things to grade people on. It doesn't give you better pilots, it gives you pilots who the day they get off probation, start captaining from the right seat. Who wants to spend 4 days with that? I'd rather have the line pilot who moves the freight. Who was out dealing with bad weather, not sitting at a desk or flying a sim. They are actually looking for pilots, right? sometimes I wonder. Another thing to think about: management pilots tend to feel sympathy for the company at contract time. No wonder they seek out these individuals.

And before someone hands me sour grapes, I'm not looking for a job, I'm good where I am. Just something I've noticed after decades in this industry.
I think a good portion of the “requirements” come from non pilots. “He hasn’t gotten a type rating in 10 years no way he can pass training at MY airline.” Training at my regional was way more intense and pressure packed than it was at AA. They still do excellent training at AA and everyone is more than prepared to fly the line at the end of it but it was a different atmosphere. AAs training dept TRAINS pilots. Regional training depts are WEEDING OUT pilots who cannot do the job.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:52 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Margaritaville View Post
You may be right, and they probably do it, but this is dumb. At the end of the day, they need people to move the sacks of flour from one city to the next. A pilot with a ton of PIC jet hours and a bunch of type ratings has proven they can do that. If they have survived that long in this industry, they probably have the technical skills, CRM, and ability to pass training the majors are looking for. But instead, they keep moving the goal posts with these asinine qualifiers. Not everyone gets to be a management pilot. Those who think you just apply and get those jobs have probably never held them. On most properties, you have to kiss a lot of ass and play golf or drink with the right people to get those jobs. Some people are locked out of this jobs because of who they are, or because they don't look like the people doing the hiring. So they're worthless things to grade people on. It doesn't give you better pilots, it gives you pilots who the day they get off probation, start captaining from the right seat. Who wants to spend 4 days with that? I'd rather have the line pilot who moves the freight. Who was out dealing with bad weather, not sitting at a desk or flying a sim. They are actually looking for pilots, right? sometimes I wonder. Another thing to think about: management pilots tend to feel sympathy for the company at contract time. No wonder they seek out these individuals.

And before someone hands me sour grapes, I'm not looking for a job, I'm good where I am. Just something I've noticed after decades in this industry.
I'm not disagreeing that what airlines need 98% of the time are just competent line pilots...I'm just saying that's the reality, that those in the hiring decision loops, when they can be picky, will lean towards pilots with other qualifiers besides an ATP, hours and type ratings.

At some point, if the economy doesn't falter and we don't have other black swan events, the major airlines will hit the point at which they can't afford to be picky in that regard, and competent pilots with ATPs will be the only requirement to getting a job. Just giving my two cents...as it's been said before, it's good to understand the mindset of the "enemy", insofar as the "enemy" being the HR hiring process.
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