New Hires No Showing
10-12-2021, 08:28 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 29
Because they waited too long to bring people back. Reactive instead of proactive. Did UA and DL have the same issue? Of course not, because they were running NEW hire classes instead of getting their pilots back up. Make whatever excuses or justifications you want, AA was behind the curve.
10-12-2021, 08:28 AM
#22
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,937
Originally Posted by Saabs
They absolutely were running classes. The classes were full with furlough returns.
10-12-2021, 08:36 AM
#23
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,937
Originally Posted by MartyM
Because they waited too long to bring people back. Reactive instead of proactive. Did UA and DL have the same issue? Of course not, because they were running NEW hire classes instead of getting their pilots back up. Make whatever excuses or justifications you want, AA was behind the curve.
But the facts are they were running requalification classes for a number of months before they were able to run any new hire classes. The schoolhouse was full. It is faster to get a current pilot requalified and back flying the line than getting a new hire trained. That is reality. It is facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
10-12-2021, 08:42 AM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Are you are not aware AA had massively more pilots on furlough than UA and DL? You can criticize that decision, and their debt and cash flow management, and concern they were looking over the cliff of going into bankruptcy.
But the facts are they were running requalification classes for a number of months before they were able to run any new hire classes. The schoolhouse was full. It is faster to get a current pilot requalified and back flying the line than getting a new hire trained. That is reality. It is facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
But the facts are they were running requalification classes for a number of months before they were able to run any new hire classes. The schoolhouse was full. It is faster to get a current pilot requalified and back flying the line than getting a new hire trained. That is reality. It is facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
So AA wasn't behind the curve? The other airlines weren't better at managing their situation and pilot group? AA wasn't reactive instead of proactive? Didn't AA claim they were going to position themselves to pick up the flying as soon as it came back, ahead of the others, and do the complete opposite of that? As evidenced by this summer. Are those my own set of facts?
10-12-2021, 08:46 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Are you are not aware AA had massively more pilots on furlough than UA and DL? You can criticize that decision, and their debt and cash flow management, and concern they were looking over the cliff of going into bankruptcy.
But the facts are they were running requalification classes for a number of months before they were able to run any new hire classes. The schoolhouse was full. It is faster to get a current pilot requalified and back flying the line than getting a new hire trained. That is reality. It is facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
But the facts are they were running requalification classes for a number of months before they were able to run any new hire classes. The schoolhouse was full. It is faster to get a current pilot requalified and back flying the line than getting a new hire trained. That is reality. It is facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
AA did just increased the time between recurrent training intervals from 9 months to 12. That means roughly 25% fewer training cycles per year. In addition, only 4 fleet types, which means less movement between fleets during each vacancy bid.
10-12-2021, 08:51 AM
#26
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,937
Originally Posted by MartyM
So AA wasn't behind the curve? The other airlines weren't better at managing their situation and pilot group? AA wasn't reactive instead of proactive? Didn't AA claim they were going to position themselves to pick up the flying as soon as it came back, ahead of the others, and do the complete opposite of that? As evidenced by this summer. I guess those are my own opinions, and not facts?
10-12-2021, 09:01 AM
#27
Eating A Gruben
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,065
Originally Posted by TransWorld
You realize AA has a much higher debt than the others. It’s cash position was much more tenuous. That is why they furloughed more. Your other superficial questions are not relevant to their deep issue, being on the verge of bankruptcy. If they went into bankruptcy and reorganized coming out, one of the first things a bankruptcy judge signs off on is breaking the Union contracts, forcing massive pay cuts. In the past, some airline bankruptcies cut pilot pay by 40%. I have witnessed that up close.
It’s interesting to watch you defend the company at the detriment to this pilot group. Makes zeeeerroooo sense
10-12-2021, 09:02 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by TransWorld
You realize AA has a much higher debt than the others. It’s cash position was much more tenuous. That is why they furloughed more. Your other superficial questions are not relevant to their deep issue, being on the verge of bankruptcy. If they went into bankruptcy and reorganized coming out, one of the first things a bankruptcy judge signs off on is breaking the Union contracts, forcing massive pay cuts. In the past, some airline bankruptcies cut pilot pay by 40%. I have witnessed that up close.
Thanks for stating the obvious. Still waiting to hear what my own facts were and what was incorrect. I guess AA did so well they fired people because they made such great decisions.
As I said, I hope AA is proactive and not reactive going forward. Unless I'm wrong about that as well.
10-12-2021, 09:05 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by sanicom3205
All of our furloughed guys were financed by Uncle Sam. So we furloughed while no one else did. Then, with the benefit of months of analysis and comparison with our peers, we let those guys rot at home, collecting a paycheck, doing nothing for the company while also costing the company nothing. Next thing you know, we have a fire under our tails to get everyone trained, and end up cancelling flights due to lack of pilots. You read that right, the government paid their salaries, they went untrained, and then we cancelled flights. Genius.
It’s interesting to watch you defend the company at the detriment to this pilot group. Makes zeeeerroooo sense
It’s interesting to watch you defend the company at the detriment to this pilot group. Makes zeeeerroooo sense
Yep, exactly
10-12-2021, 09:13 AM
#30
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,937
Originally Posted by MartyM
Thanks for stating the obvious. Still waiting to hear what my own facts were and what was incorrect. I guess AA did so well they fired people because they made such great decisions.
As I said, I hope AA is proactive and not reactive going forward. Unless I'm wrong about that as well.
As I said, I hope AA is proactive and not reactive going forward. Unless I'm wrong about that as well.
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