are you an idiot or do you just think he is? He is talking about how United’s AIP has a relatively larger, in his opinion, QOL gain than the American TA. The fact that we don’t have fsb, nor does American, is not germane to his argument.

Getting a little nervous, aren’t we?

They had the worse work rules in the industry. If they didn’t have larger QOL gains than Delta and American there would be anarchy with their pilot group. I’ll take not having to deal with FSB reserve for the last 5 years over bragging they had the largest QOL gains because, wait for it…. they got rid of involuntary FSB…

Delta DOES now have VAS (Voluntary Airport Standby), which cannot be assigned, but like the name implies, is voluntary. it adds 3 hours of pay, regardless of if you get an assignment and is paid on top of any rotation flown. I would say anyone who does this voluntarily sees that as "a win".

UA just knocked their Field Standby down to (seemingly) the exact same thing. I guarantee you UA pilots see that as a win.

About what exactly? Nothing be nervous about, I’ll be receiving a nice snap up.

I agree, but the fact still remains they made incredible strides with QOL, beat us on pay, and no (or very few of you count Indoc captain) concessions

Just to clarify I’m not discussing voluntary field standby in my post. I feel like that was obvious fangs…

You said, rather loudly, "[DL] CURRENTLY DON’T HAVE FEILD STANBY." In the context of 'negotiating' for/against some form of Field Standby, I think it's relevant DL included that with 3:00 of Pay. Especially since that exactly what UA just matched. Wasn't trying to rub and noses in anything, just adding the greater context.

Oh ok sounds good, well let me clarify. I’m not referring to voluntary FSB. Was United the only airline with involuntary FSB during these current negotiations? Yes or No?

Yes, I believe they were.

You're slow on the uptake aren't ya? It is just one of many significant QOL gains they made on their contract. It is proof that if a Union is strong enough and doesn't run at the first "we asked and they said no" then a major change could have been made. For AA that could have been improved sick accrual (UA got that too), more days off for reserve (UA got that too), improved trip trading and restrictions on company lock-downs (I would of equated this major gain to UA's FSB removal) .

Again, for you slow people in the back.

My sincere apologies for assuming you were part of AAL. You are out of touch to such a degree that it caused quite a bit of confusion. I must admit.

At least it's oddly comforting to know that some of you found a way to exist in realms beyond ours.

Yeah sorry I’m a little slow, did they keep global reserve? (You should read up on that policy)

Would you call that a concession?

I’m a little slow, so you tell me.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other reserve "wins" in UAL's AIP vs. ours. Again, reserve goes more senior at UAL and ALPA CARES ABOUT IT.

Here's a short summary:

Increased Reserve days off to 13 in a 30-day bid period, and 14 days off in a 31-day bid period; for months of Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Sep, Oct, and Nov.

Long Call Reserve
•Assignments made 1200-1400, 14-hour call out (1015-1400 for LCR Pilots)
•All other times 18-hour call out for a trip, 16-hour call out for a Short Call assignment
•Release on last day prior to HDO moved up to 0600

Short Call Reserve
•NEW - Short Call matrix will be published monthly
•NEW - Cap on assigned Short Calls for traditional Reserves (not on a VEC or VSC line) = 6 (prorated based on available days)
•NEW - Short Calls built after 1400 result in 1 hour of Add Pay
•Release on last day moved earlier to 1400

NEW - Premium Short Call
•Available for both Lineholders and Reserves to pick up
•Short Call will pay 5:15 of LPV and 5:15 Add Pay per day
•If no in base Pilot picks up the Premium Short Call the company may move the Short Call to another base as a Standby Reserve Trip

First day of reserve pre-10am incentives
•Pilot who picks up SC or FSB entitled to 1 hour of Add Pay
•VEC pilot assigned a SC entitled to 1 hour of Add Pay
A trip picked up or assigned entitled to 2 hours of Add Pay

There's 7 pages of reserve provisions... how much thought did APA put into our reserves?

They made huge improvements to reserve because that’s what it took just to bring them up to standard. You know kinda how our TA is worth 8.3B but Deltas was only like 7.6B. We had to make up a lot more ground. I can’t tell if you’re purposely pretending not to understand this or you’re actually this dumb?

BTW I do think that United exceeding our pay and getting 2023 retro back to Jan will flip yes voters here to NO.

Along with higher monthly sick accrual rates, long duty day rigs, LC hours, deadhead, and crew meals just to name a few I’m sure there’s more.

If UA ratifies the soon to be TA, and AA ratifies this TA, than AA will no doubt have the weakest contract of the majors for the next 4 years if not longer. It’s time to do better.

From APA: "In response to today’s announcement that United Airlines has reached an agreement in principle with its pilots for a new collective bargaining agreement, your APA Board of Directors, National Officers, and key committees are carefully reviewing the United AIP and assessing its implications for our own Tentative Agreement.

American Airlines CEO Robert Isom has pledged to match our industry peers in the current bargaining environment. In the coming days, your union leadership will endeavor to determine whether Mr. Isom plans to follows through on that pledge in light of this latest development.

As APA performs its due diligence and formulates next steps, we encourage you to likewise review the details of the United pilots’ AIP.

Thank you for your continued engagement and support. We will update you as appropriate."

They're panicking. Can we get real about going ALPA now?

This is so embarrassing.

Not embarrassing, it’s pattern bargaining, it’s part of the process. What’s embarrassing is the amount of good ole boys who will lie back and think of England just to get through this.

Almost as big of a “win” as getting 5:15 for being flown into your day off. We really got them there!

Here's the next step. APA begs Isom to match UA and DAL payrates. Done. Zero lifting. Yet another missed opportunity for AA pilots to raise the bar, which is what pattern bargaining is all about.
Stay far away from ALPA. We don't want you.

What pattern bargaining?! Our union was, and probably still is, ready to settle for Delta minus. The majority of the pilot group shares the same sentiment. In fact, we took great care to "surpass" Delta's pay without triggering their snap-up clause.

Utterly shameful, embarrassing, and sets a bad precedent.

Well in May of 2022 United announced a TA that failed and was worth less then the one they now have. Since that time AA Union leadership rejected a better TA than the one United membership rejected and Delta secured an even better yet TA, AA announced a better TA than the one they previously rejected and now United has a better TA than the one they previously rejected last year.

I called those events pattern barging.

Of course, how convenient that we completely overlooked leveraging anything Delta negotiated, except for pay rates.

I'm absolutely thrilled about the prospect of AAPA swooping in to salvage this situation and generously sprinkling a few more dollars to keep the "yes" voters obediently in line. It's truly a masterclass in sarcasm.

So your mad Delta went high enough to secure a TA without a failed vote and break a loop of 1Up for others to party up too because it isn’t enough compensation and benefits or just harms your personal pride?

Your preferred option is Delta mgmt and goes low enough to secure a failed TA after watching two others fail, and we get to where we’re are now with more pride in ourselves by 1Uping each other to the exact same same spot vs an exit and party up.

Do you enjoy vacations less if your wife gave you driving instructions vs navigating yourself while driving? Or do you enjoy them based on the reality of where you are? Is it important to tell her you don’t need instructions?

Is your pride that high? How we got here is more important than getting here?

<sarcasm>

We NeEd To SeE tHe LaNgUaGe To MaKe SuRe UaL sUrPaSsEs Us.

Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood imsosuss/elpeso

<sarcasm>

Vote no. For real this time.

I don't think there can be a vote. APA and management need to come together and add something that will keep this alive. I have a reasonable amount of faith APA will pursue this and will put pressure on management to do so given we've already received multiple emails within hours of the UA AIP.

First, it’s honestly difficult to read you.

Second, you make no sense. I quite literally wrote the opposite of what you’re inferring.

I don’t disagree with your premise.

What I do disagree with is that APA was ready for this. Adaptability is a 4 letter works for APA.

Well maybe try to reread it, with an additional ounce of humility.

Yea, the only scary part is the rumor Ed made it personal by losing his temper. Once it’s personal it’s very hard to recover from.

Brother are you drunk?

Do we any real evidence or knowledge of that? All I saw was some person posted a random anonymous text message saying that was the case lol

So where does this put the vote % @ AAL? 70/30 to pass the approved UPA next month?

To be completely accurate, the VAS at DAL pays a minimum of 8:15. 3 hours is pay/no credit, which goes over a reserve guarantee, and 5:15 pay/credit. If you sit and do nothing, you get 8:15 at a minimum.

Maybe a little, but I am not upset our TA doesn’t 1up Delta, upset because it is less than what we want for ourselves regardless of Delta.

Everyone wants better QOL at AA, some are willing to vote no to try and improve it, and some are willing to vote yes and continue to complain about QOL.

It seemed you have no actual goal except 1uping another carrier which sounds dumb and prideful to me especially since that has already happened last year.

I buy it at face value, just hearing him on these town halls. He constantly interrupts other speakers to moan about something. Seems like a loose cannon.

Sorry, you didn’t know that we have crew meals already at AA?

United has multiple options chose from.

I did know, can you pre select your meal days in advance from over a dozen options? And I’ll admit, that’s not a huge sticking point but it’s just one of many areas that the AA AIP is lagging in.