Starting over
 

Would anyone who has actually started over please share your experience.

13 year Captain starting over looking for guidance an experienced hats ahead.

please be kind
looking for personal experiences from your preferred quality of life to staring from the bottom

pay loss
reserve
upgrade
family time
bases/commuting not commuting
any information is helpful

I was at the regionals for 10+ years, so similar experience but not as severe.

pay loss: planned ahead, and it wasn't that bad anyway. First year should be north of $100K these days anyway, second year pushing $200k. I had planned ahead because it was a premeditated career move. Hopefully last Saturday didn't come as a complete surprise and you have some socked away. And hopefully your lifestyle is structured so you can do triage (I'm not afraid to enjoy my income, but I ensure that I can afford the house and basics if push comes to shove).

reserve: you adapt pretty quickly to the new reality. Worst part would be sitting reserve in base as commuter.

upgrade: Might still be able to snag one in a year or three if needed. Otherwise FO pay will quickly get in the ballpark of NK CA pay.

family time: Everybody adapts. We have facetime now. Might be able to bid overnights at home, I've done that on and off as available.


bases/commuting not commuting: If you're fortunate enough to have multiple CJO's in short order, you can prioritize domiciles in your decision. Otherwise it depends on your family circumstances... is moving in cards? I'd avoid long commutes, or commutes with limited flights, or routes with a lot of commuters. Avoid multi-leg commutes like the plague if possible.

Bottom line, you'll adapt and be fine and likely be better off at some point in the future (if you're not too old). A little seniority will open up many new options.

its actually not similar at all lol

Leaving a regional to go upwards to a major is not even remotely in the same world as being tenured and senior and having the company go bust.

some of the ex-regional guys i fly with now were making crazy money and super senior, and many delayed their flows or applications. They took massive paycuts, QOL hits, etc.

obviously this is not the same as spirit guys thinking they had a career seat, but this liquidation wasnt exactly a rug pull either. Literally hundreds of senior Spirit guys have left over the past 2 years.

Hi OP,

You will get more useful answers if we know where you live and your level of aversion to the guppy. Seniority progression is still quick to get off the bottom save for CLT and DFW.

senior lca at a regional living in base to Great Recession era first year pay commute to reserve could absolutely be a teeth kick

back to OP… are you an AA new hire or just posting here for general advice?

OP is posting on behalf of an F9 CA. This isn’t a jobless person looking for a life raft but someone that’s lost faith in the F9 gig. Just for context.

Well to whomever is asking, be it the OP or their 'friend' starting over at this point likely isn't as bad as it sounds. The reality of the situation is that the large hiring wave at AA is coming to a close soon, but that doesn't mean there isn't any more good progression either. AA is hiring, and buying planes.

Looking at the list and retirements, if things stay the same someone hired today could reasonably expect to hold 737 left seat in 2031, likely in LGA. Assuming for reference they would be 65 in 2040, they would retire at approximately 50% on the seniority list overall, so 9 - 10 years as a Captain if they wanted.

But more importantly, the QoL can increase dramatically after year 1. And Those who stick it out for a while, 4 or 5 years in the NB FO seat get whatever they want basically, with good pay and benefits. Reserve is awful, but depending on which base you go to you can get off reserve very quickly, Miami for example.

Commuting is great, can reserve the JS on a first come first served basis, coupled with the commuter clause in the contract makes it a non-issue.

Good luck!

Thanks!! This is some great information and what a lot of us are looking for. A true kick in the teeth, but all we can do now is pick ourselves up, dust off, stay humble and remember NO ONE owes us a thing. As heartbreaking as this has been, it is also pretty exciting... new challenges, new experiences, new friends.

I was tenured and senior and leaving very secure employment and good QOL to do a do-or-die training event and start over at the bottom of the list. Yes of course I prepared but it's still a big leap and big change. In this case presumably everybody at NK under the age of about 62 had in fact made preparations.

Anyway just trying to help, if you're looking only for senior CA's who have had a major liquidate out from under them, well the Pan Am and Eastern guys probably all retired around the turn of the century.

On the guppy note... if you're on the older side I would probably suggest trying to start and finish probation on the bus, unless maybe you have prior guppy experience or a type. Bit of a hassle going from bus to 737, BTDT.

If you've been a captain for 13 years, you know what to expect. The pay rates are public. Commuting to reserve sucks and you will lose family time. Upgrades are 2-5 years and will probably increase.

And the seniority hit they took with that foolish endeavor will coast them much more money in the long run.

What? Was one of the easiest transitions I have even done, especially through AA's slow paced training program.

Don't wait, submit your app, you'll do fine. Lots of retirements coming up. If you do come aboard - welcome to the fAAmily!

How would you know this? How would we know this? This is the first and only post by the OP and his ID is "Yellowbrickroad". Why would it be anybody other then a recently liquidated Spirit pilot??? If it really is an F9 pilot then the OP needs to make that clear because the advice would most likely be different.

Former NK here, AA is airline #5 for me. I'm very blessed to be here with some seniority now.
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Good news is, we are still doing enough hiring for the next 3 plus years. You should have some good options after your first year on the NB in terms of base and RSV vs line. Post 2030 DOH movement will be fairly incremental.

Hopefully you have money saved and first year pay doesnt crush you too much. Second year is a massive jump, third year is a nice bump also.

Move to base if you can, it will make life so much better. Welcome to the fAAmily!

Because they DM’d me over the weekend.

Glad it was what you were looking for, and if there are others looking for this kind of information this is what we see as of today. Assuming everything stays as is - number of pilots on property, bypass percentages, fleet size, and that you are hired today etc.. We know however that there are aircraft purchases (XLRs, 787s), and with that comes more pilots, and there will be early outs, none of which is accounted for below.

Total pilots: 16,680

Retirements to come:
2026: 603 (Remainder)
2027: 722
2028: 672
2029: 640
2030: 583
2031: 624

End of year seniority for someone hired today:
2026: 16078 -> 96.4%
2027: 15356 -> 92.0%
2028: 14531 -> 87.1%
2029: 14044 -> 84.2%
2030: 13461 -> 80.7%
2031: 12873 -> 77.2%

Most Junior Today:
Lineholder: 737 LAX FO 168XX
Captain Today: 737 NB CA #139XX
WB FO Today: 777 FO #132XX

Seriously why did you answer this post? You don’t work for AA.

Maybe take a seat on the sidelines and let people who actually left their airline for AA answer the question. “Snag an upgrade on a year”. What are you talking about?!

In all honesty, the post was held in the pre-moderation queue due to him being a new user. That doesn't actually display which forum it's in and I assumed it was in the Spirit or Majors forum. So no it's not AA-specific advice, but rather generic.

Was a WB CA for an international legacy, now flying NB FO with guys younger and less experience than myself. Does it bother me? Not one bit. I took the pay cut (which after year 3, became a pay rise), flew reserve for a few months, commuted for a few months, and can hold NB CA in almost every base. It quickly becomes a distant memory.

None of us are getting out of here alive, in the end, the money race is with ourselves

Good luck!

I PM’s this guy. I started over at AA at 56. 8th airline. I was happy at #2, but it left me; I didn’t leave it. Anyway, just heard that a father and son were in the same AA new hire class last month. One on the Bus the other on a real airplane. ;)

Don’t let the InterWebs influence our decision. YMMV.

That's got to be bittersweet. Poor reflection on your choices/luck, but at least your kid got it right lol

That's a super negative statement. We don't know the circumstances of the father, so I'm just happy for them both. Has to be an extreme proud moment to have his son start at a legacy regardless of own's career trials & tribulations.

Got to flag this comment. I’m disappointed, Rick, you are better than this.

It is great to see people landing on their feet. The dad may have been a 135/91 guy who came over to 121, or a spirit guy getting a chance to finish his career at a legacy. Either way, a cool story.

I flew with a lot of people at AWA who were senior at airlines like Brannif, Eastern, Continental and PanAm. Then at AA with TWA guys who had been effed in the merger, twice. Literally 95% had great attitudes, fun to fly with and were happy to have a good job.

Remember, you are only senior to the guy next to you because you left your previous job first.

Both were NK guys. Dad and son

Bummer about Spirit, but that's pretty cool. Really happy to have them aboard.