eaglefly

If AA declared BK, I'd expect a mass exodus of senior pilots and probably every one over 60. Not sure, but I'd think AA would be in bad shape as they'd probably have to ground many of the 777's and some of the 767's as they'd have no captains to fly them and it would take 6-12 months of heavy training to get pilots back in those seats.

During the interim, they'd lose a lot of customers/market share, much of it possibly not recovered. I suppose Interline partners could pick up some of the slack, but contract wise AA's rates are comparable to Delta and WAY behind Southwest for the 737, so aside from more efficiency, I doubt any new BK approved AA pilot contract would be a whole lot worse then what's out there at DAL. A lot of debt would vaporize and AA could really go from among the finanacially weakest to among the strongest in short order.

Of course, the shareholders would be crushed. If it happens, it happens (and if it does, despite any productivity gains, AA will need LOTS of pilots), but AA would do OK. I think they'll still do anything and everything to avoid it, prefering to hold their ground and slowly crawl away from their troubles.

satpak77

a buddy who is a pilot at AA told me in Jan that it was 1 in 10

so.....

** EDIT: misread your post, you stated guys bypassed previously. OK

CVG767A

I bet that in an 1113 hearing, AA's management would argue that a contract more like USAir's is what they need to survive. Management would want to gut their pay and working conditions.

eaglefly

Heck, they could argue they need Mesa's contract to survive, but what they ask for and what they get are two different things. A judge would also hear form the APA and other unions, yes ?

I'd think any judge would get a fair look at the competition and make a reasonable decision based on the competitive landscape. I think AMR's situation is more debt related anyway, not excessive labor costs and IF they did go to BK, it wouldn't just BE just for labor costs, which would seem to sway a judge to be agree to more cuts for labor.

Sure, it would be enjoyable and pleasurable for you to believe that a judge would decimate AA's pilot contract down to the lowest rung of all the carriers (and by a significant margin), but I don't think you'll giggling with joy anytime soon (at least not anymore then you are now).

Additionally, nothing comes without a price and should management choose to take a meat cleaver to labor after their long history of gorging themselves like ravenous ticks at the bonus table, I'd think a byproduct of that would be their own throats being financially cut as well, not to mention ensuring the AA product is K-Mart in perpituity with a labor force that across the board simply wouldn't care anymore.

Not a good plan to prosper after a BK, if you ask me.

Rock752000

Mesa's CBA wasn't touched during their "record fast" BK. They tried to test the waters and get concessions, but failed. Maybe that serves your cause to bash Mesa - but, I'm pretty sure MAG passed the bottom-feeder 'target' to RAH a few years ago, fire that direction next time.

MatthewAMEL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORouZ-qOgg

Since you both top FO pay (on the jet) at $37/hr, I'd say MAG and RAH share the bottom feeder moniker.

However, I seem to recall from some MAG guys on the jumpseat that they don't get block or better. Has that changed?

BTW- MAG tops FO pay on a t-prop at $26/hr, so...

eaglefly

Fine.....don't know who the current "bottom feeder" title goes to, but Mesa has been a contender, if not the title holder for the two decades plus I've been in the business and is considered the one of the least desirable carriers to work for.

That's not a slight against the pilots (well, perhaps it was against those who chose to undercut Mesa pilots by taking jobs at Freedom), but if you choose to take it that way, that's your choice. The point really wasn't about Mesa, per se, but about what has occured in BK in the past and that is nothing is guaranteed, but the fact is, painful as it may be, AA has a little more of a rep to protect then Johnny does, whose rep and the his companies is already in the gutter among prospective and current pilots as well as mainline business partners with the exception of U.

All the best to your pilot group though.

Rock752000

FO pay still leaves a lot to be desired, as does working for the Company in general... but to answer you question, since DEC/JAN 2008, MAG pilots are paid schedule or actual/block or better on a per segment basis. No rigs yet.

Sorry for the thread drift, I felt need to defend my alma mater brethren still working hard to change the misconceptions of the group.

BTW- there's only a few "A-listers" left there that I know of, I'm not one of 'em.

Back on topic, my apology...

CVG767A

No, I don't find it enjoyable or pleasurable to think what a bankruptcy judge would do to your contract. It would be in my best interest for every major airline contract to be a good one (for pattern bargaining). More importantly, I don't like seeing any other group having to go through what DL, NWA and UA went through a few years ago.

You are naive to think that a bankruptcy judge would look at your contract and think that it doesn't need major modifications. Your management would argue before the judge that major changes are required to your PWA for AMR to secure exit financing. I don't see the APA having an effective counterargument. "Our pay rates are comparable to other major airline pilots'" wouldn't do it.

AMR may or may not need to go through bankruptcy at some point. I hope they can avoid it. If they do reorganize, they will, in fact, be a lean and mean competitor. A significant part of that leanness will be from changes to your contract.

eaglefly

Of course, it's probable that significant changes to the APA contract would occur, but that's not what you implied, now is it ?

You used the word "gut" and then bought in the lowest of the low as the probable, if not certain comparator thus driving AA pilot compensation WELL below that of ALL of the competition except U, which is an anomoly. U is widely below ALL the competition and likely to stay there as it spins its wheels in the mud in perpituity due to its inability to become healthy primarily as a result of being held hostage by a rogue and infantile pilot union. If this wasn't the case, U likely would have a pilot compensation package much more in line with DAL and UAL, thus making a more level competitive landscape for pilot compensation comparators for the courts comparison. I disagree that AMR would even seek that and/or a judge would give an empty notepad to AMR management to fill in the blanks on all of their labor contracts and the claim of certain or even high liklihood that would be the end result is simply dead wrong in my book. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not personally worried about it anyway...............