Cool How APA Abandoned Retired Pilots
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 38
Cool How APA Abandoned Retired Pilots
If you are a faithful union member, line pilot who flies the contract for 30+ years, and pay your union dues all the while, this is what loyalty looks like from the "Allied Pilots Association" when the storms come:
ATTENTION RETIREES
In bankruptcy, retired employees are governed under a separate part of the bankruptcy code (Section 1114) from active employees (Section 1113). Due to the potential for conflicting priorities and interests, APA has elected not to represent retired pilots during the AMR bankruptcy proceedings. As an administrative result of the decision, retirees are restricted from accessing the members’ side of alliedpilots.org. As a convenience to retired pilots, retiree benefit information has been moved to the public side of alliedpilots.org and may be accessed by clicking here.
About APA
ATTENTION RETIREES
In bankruptcy, retired employees are governed under a separate part of the bankruptcy code (Section 1114) from active employees (Section 1113). Due to the potential for conflicting priorities and interests, APA has elected not to represent retired pilots during the AMR bankruptcy proceedings. As an administrative result of the decision, retirees are restricted from accessing the members’ side of alliedpilots.org. As a convenience to retired pilots, retiree benefit information has been moved to the public side of alliedpilots.org and may be accessed by clicking here.
About APA
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Retires in this situation have to put together their own group to represent their interests. Its simply how the law and the RLA function. The group representing the retires at Delta were able to effect many changes beneficial to retires and still have some things that are working. Most retires at Delta came out better then active pilots.
Chapter 11 sucks for everyone. Everyone has to be alert to represent their own interests.
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Not only is it the law but the vast majority of retired pilots at AMR have nothing to fear from the filing. Their retirement could be taken in a 100 percent lump sum. Even if they choose a annuity in the A plan if they are over 60 its likely that the PBGC will cover very close to 100 percent of the expected benefit.
#7
Not only is it the law but the vast majority of retired pilots at AMR have nothing to fear from the filing. Their retirement could be taken in a 100 percent lump sum. Even if they choose a annuity in the A plan if they are over 60 its likely that the PBGC will cover very close to 100 percent of the expected benefit.
Maximum Monthly Guarantee Tables
PBGC Maximum Monthly Guarantees for 2012*
Age2012 Straight-Life Annuity2012 Joint and 50% Survivor Annuity** 65 $4,653.41 $4,188.07 64 $4,327.67 $3,894.90 63 $4,001.93 $3,601.74 62 $3,676.19 $3,308.57 61 $3,350.46 $3,015.41 60 $3,024.72 $2,722.25 59 $2,838.58 $2,554.72 58 $2,652.44 $2,387.20 57 $2,466.31 $2,219.68 56 $2,280.17 $2,052.15 55 $2,094.03 $1,884.63 54 $2,000.97 $1,800.87 53 $1,907.90 $1,717.11 52 $1,814.83 $1,633.35 51 $1,721.76 $1,549.58 50 $1,628.69 $1,465.82 49 $1,535.63 $1,382.07 48 $1,442.56 $1,298.30 47 $1,349.49 $1,214.54 46 $1,256.42 $1,130.78 45 $1,163.35 $1,047.02There are the numbers and the link to the actual data. I sincerely doubt that 60-65 y.o. pilots are only getting that small of a pension (which I presume most have 25-30 years). PBGC guarantees were not made for white collar professionals and don't come anywhere near what their pensions should have paid. Find anyone who had substantial benefits (even most NB CA have 20+ years and lost a lot of money with Pension termination.
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Sailing - not sure where you got your numbers but PBGC is NOWHERE CLOSE to covering the A-Plan.
Maximum Monthly Guarantee Tables
There are the numbers and the link to the actual data. I sincerely doubt that 60-65 y.o. pilots are only getting that small of a pension (which I presume most have 25-30 years). PBGC guarantees were not made for white collar professionals and don't come anywhere near what their pensions should have paid. Find anyone who had substantial benefits (even most NB CA have 20+ years and lost a lot of money with Pension termination.
Maximum Monthly Guarantee Tables
PBGC Maximum Monthly Guarantees for 2012*
Age2012 Straight-Life Annuity2012 Joint and 50% Survivor Annuity** 65 $4,653.41 $4,188.07 64 $4,327.67 $3,894.90 63 $4,001.93 $3,601.74 62 $3,676.19 $3,308.57 61 $3,350.46 $3,015.41 60 $3,024.72 $2,722.25 59 $2,838.58 $2,554.72 58 $2,652.44 $2,387.20 57 $2,466.31 $2,219.68 56 $2,280.17 $2,052.15 55 $2,094.03 $1,884.63 54 $2,000.97 $1,800.87 53 $1,907.90 $1,717.11 52 $1,814.83 $1,633.35 51 $1,721.76 $1,549.58 50 $1,628.69 $1,465.82 49 $1,535.63 $1,382.07 48 $1,442.56 $1,298.30 47 $1,349.49 $1,214.54 46 $1,256.42 $1,130.78 45 $1,163.35 $1,047.02There are the numbers and the link to the actual data. I sincerely doubt that 60-65 y.o. pilots are only getting that small of a pension (which I presume most have 25-30 years). PBGC guarantees were not made for white collar professionals and don't come anywhere near what their pensions should have paid. Find anyone who had substantial benefits (even most NB CA have 20+ years and lost a lot of money with Pension termination.
In the case of a retired AMR pilot a friend said that almost 100 percent took the lump sum option. They could get 100 percent in a lump. They have nothing to lose. If they did not take the lump on the A plan most get about 30 percent of final average earnings. If a pilot had a 200,000 a year FAE his benefit would be 60,000 a year. Add in the 11 percent B fund lump for his career even if he only got the PBGC numbers you listed he will not starve.
In addition to the above the calculations are different for employees already retired. I know a Delta pilot who retired with a 80,000 a year benefit from the Delta retirement fund. His PBGC payment covers all but about 300 a month. He retired in 2000 at age 60.
Last edited by sailingfun; 02-02-2012 at 07:31 AM.
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