Originally Posted by HSLD

Except for the 100 737-Max, 50 737-900ER recently announced. Oh yeah, the UAL pre-merger 25 787 and 25 A350 order (with options for 25 more of each). Plus all the pre-merger CAL jets on order.
Aside from that, UAL has no aircraft on order.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

AFAIK, only the East side is slated for a large number of retirements at U and that will still take years. I don't see mass parking of the -80's anytime soon as that would result in a massive and permanent loss of revenue. It seems you've got AA with no furloughs and theoretically little attrition parking all the -80's and all the new orders going elsewhere..........well, I suppose Parker could staff the AA side at 500% on reserves. The failed TA provided for the outsourcing of the junior half of the pilots jobs anyway, so even in your draconian scenario, Parker wouldn't be any worse then that term sheet and as stated, the CLA throws a lot of wrenches in that plan.

Rick, this whole dance isn't going to go on for more then a few months at most (personally, I can't see it getting too far into the holiday travel season). The UCC cannot.........no, WILL not (by their own admission) sign on to AA exiting BK without a pilots CBA and that will either happen one of 2 ways. Either A. AMR and the APA negotiate something palatable to the pilot GROUP and that will have to be BETTER then U's CLA for the price of tolerating this management any further -or- B. a merger will be consummated within C11 and that triggers the U CLA, which may occur as a result of AMR's faliure to come to a consenual deal and the UCC acts to terminate exclusivity or perhaps before any deal as a result of AMR's acceptance of US Airways's submitting a POR to the court.

The judge has now given AMR a bigger bat to hit us with, but the faster and harder they swing it at our heads, the more determined we'll be to take the whacks until the UCC says time has run out and takes the bat away. That's my take on it anyway. AMR has stated they intend to impliment most of the 1113 provisions and has threatened to eliminate any pension including 401(k) contributions as a punitive measure, but we shall see. At any rate, in the very near term look for the following;

- Pay rate adjustments per the 1113.
- No sequence protection or minimum guarantee.
- 1113 adjustments to RSV system and reduction of pay credits.
- Loss of all E,F,G time and Int'l override.
- Loss of pay protection for fatigue.
- Changes to sick leave policy, including reduced compensation and requirement for 3rd party approval of illness.
- Airport fleabag hotels with no APA input.
- LTD adjustments for the negative.
- Implimenting scope changes.
- Closing of domiciles with STL, BOS and DCA the top contenders for elimination/reduction.
- Possible furloughs.
- Freezing of the A-fund and termination of the B-fund (again possibly replaced with NOTHING, if the threat is acted upon).

PBS will take 6 to as long as 18 months to impliment, I've heard. Medical plans will be changed for 2013 and those are normally selected during October, so that would take effect for 2013 (it's my understanding medical benefits cannot be changed mid-term), so those two seem more longer term changes.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

AFAIK, only the East side is slated for a large number of retirements at U and that will still take years. I don't see mass parking of the -80's anytime soon as that would result in a massive and permanent loss of revenue. It seems you've got AA with no furloughs and theoretically little attrition parking all the -80's and all the new orders going elsewhere..........well, I suppose Parker could staff the AA side at 500% on reserves. The failed TA provided for the outsourcing of the junior half of the pilots jobs anyway, so even in your draconian scenario, Parker wouldn't be any worse then that term sheet and as stated, the CLA throws a lot of wrenches in that plan.

Rick, this whole dance isn't going to go on for more then a few months at most (personally, I can't see it getting too far into the holiday travel season). The UCC cannot.........no, WILL not (by their own admission) sign on to AA exiting BK without a pilots CBA and that will either happen one of 2 ways. Either A. AMR and the APA negotiate something palatable to the pilot GROUP and that will have to be BETTER then U's CLA for the price of tolerating this management any further -or- B. a merger will be consummated within C11 and that triggers the U CLA, which may occur as a result of AMR's faliure to come to a consenual deal and the UCC acts to terminate exclusivity or perhaps before any deal as a result of AMR's acceptance of US Airways's submitting a POR to the court.

The judge has now given AMR a bigger bat to hit us with, but the faster and harder they swing it at our heads, the more determined we'll be to take the whacks until the UCC says time has run out and takes the bat away. That's my take on it anyway. AMR has stated they intend to impliment most of the 1113 provisions and has threatened to eliminate any pension including 401(k) contributions as a punitive measure, but we shall see. At any rate, in the very near term look for the following;

- Pay rate adjustments per the 1113.
- No sequence protection or minimum guarantee.
- 1113 adjustments to RSV system and reduction of pay credits.
- Loss of all E,F,G time and Int'l override.
- Loss of pay protection for fatigue.
- Changes to sick leave policy, including reduced compensation and requirement for 3rd party approval of illness.
- Airport fleabag hotels with no APA input.
- LTD adjustments for the negative.
- Implimenting scope changes.
- Closing of domiciles with STL, BOS and DCA the top contenders for elimination/reduction.
- Possible furloughs.
- Freezing of the A-fund and termination of the B-fund (again possibly replaced with NOTHING, if the threat is acted upon).

PBS will take 6 to as long as 18 months to impliment, I've heard. Medical plans will be changed for 2013 and those are normally selected during October, so that would take effect for 2013 (it's my understanding medical benefits cannot be changed mid-term), so those two seem more longer term changes.

Originally Posted by HSLD

Except for the 100 737-Max, 50 737-900ER recently announced. Oh yeah, the UAL pre-merger 25 787 and 25 A350 order (with options for 25 more of each). Plus all the pre-merger CAL jets on order.
Aside from that, UAL has no aircraft on order.

Originally Posted by rickt86

And if no JCBA is worked out, how many are at LUAL??? I bet the guys on the LCAL will be enjoy them, while the LUAL guys feel like its Eastern all over.

Please tell me how many of those are slated to be at UNITED LEGACY SIDE if no one list, one contract is worked out???

This is why I put (Legacy UAL) in the post.

Originally Posted by Tony Nelson

The -900ER's (50 firm, 60 option) are planned to replace about 85 L-UAL 757-200's.

Originally Posted by rickt86

Well the upcoming retirements can offset any need to furlough at U. However AA is prime picking off the bat, its why I dont get why you guys want it so bad. Park all the MD80s right off the bat, and start picking and choosing which parts of the upcoming airplane orders he REALLY wants. The scary part starts coming when retirements happen, and new airplane orders happen, one place could get all the planes while the other sit in a pile of their own stagnation for a decade. That is starting to become the scary thought at United right now (legacy UAL), no airplanes on order, and a JCBA held so far over their head they feel like a small child jumping up trying to get a toy. Just trying to throw it out there that the USAIR deal might be a terrible alternative. Well, unless you block AMR from getting any bonuses from this Ch11 process and force a USAIR takeover, then at least you get the joy of blocking millions to Horton and CO, but at the expense of being at the mercy of Parker, and giving him whatever bonuses he gets.

I guess the big problem is corporate America is the new Mafia, ripping people off. Your picking Tony Soprano to save you from Johnny Sacks.

Originally Posted by KillingMeSmalls

As always, a good assessment eaglefly. AFAIK is just throwing out some flamebait. I wish guys like that would just stick to their regional threads, because I am now dumber for reading his posts.

Originally Posted by atrdriver

Exactly. Nothing to be jumping for joy about.