eaglefly

Started to read that site and stopped when they said,"...and then AMR offered them a deal better then Parker's and they turned it down.". Totally in error and their credibility vaporized at that point. The AMR "LBFO" was/is worse than the U CLA. MOST AA pilots would prefer not to merge with U and aren't fans of Parker, but considering alternative, it's the lessor of two evils. IMO, Parker has the advantage as I'm skeptical AMR will bargain in good faith and offer something to the pilots better then the U CLA.

This time I don't see anything getting past the APA BOD to the membership that isn't better then the U CLA, so a warmed over LBFO II designed to just swing another 10% or so can never work if it stops at the BOD level, where it should. The longer this drags out in contractless purgatory, the stronger Parker's chances get for him.

B767

I hope the best for you AA guys, and like your optimism about what's going on Eaglefly. The UCC lawyer did say a deal has to be made, however, this is their latest:

NEW YORK – There has been debate about how important it was to have a new contract with the Allied Pilots Association before American Airlinesand parent AMR exited Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings.

On Tuesday, attorney Jack Butler for the Unsecured Creditors Committee gave his opinion – the airline must have a deal before exiting bankruptcy.

“Let there be no mistake” thatAMR has to have a contract with pilots, Butler told U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane.

“The committee is going to require that before there is any reorganization,” Butler said. “There has to be a deal.”

UPDATE: We had a conversation with Butler after Tuesday’s hearing in which he elaborated on his courtroom comments. Let’s put it this way: Butler and the committee want a deal before exit, but he acknowledges that a company can have a plan of reorganization without new labor contracts in place.

“It was the creditors committee’s expectations that there will be consensual deals here with all the labor organizations in connection with the plan of reorganization, and we believe that is very important. We believe that the company knows that. We believe the APA knows the committee’s position in that respect.”

Butler repeated that the creditors committee will not support any contract that gives pilots more value than the one they overwhelming rejected on Aug. 8.

“I don’t think there’s a better deal out there for them,” he said. END UPDATE

Now, how exactly this mess will play out, who knows. Like I said, I'm pulling for you guys.

hockeypilot44

******* the creditor's committee. If they don't want to pay the pilots fairly, they can lose everything when the pilots go on strike.

tsquare

What a totally asinine thing to say.

eaglefly

Well, it's certainly POSSIBLE for AMR to exit without a CBA and perhaps the creditors will approve that, but approve that they will have to. But if the UCC's position is that the best that will occur is a re-offer of the same deal again, it's a certain faliure. The APA BOD would NEVER simply pass on the same or similar reworked agreement to the membership after the resounding rejection, thus unless Parker prevails inside BK, then the UCC will have to stick with AMR management in the belief they can operate AA sans pilot CBA for an extended period of time. IMO, the long-term damage with that plan is incalcuable.

One must note that by May 2013 BK will be through and AA won't have a sympathetic judge. One of our pilots who's respected and runs a retirement planning company for pilots expects that once the B-fund is whacked, by the end of this year we will see a spike in retirements, which is an ominous signal for the holidays, especially the Christmas travel season. I think if the worst occurs as AA becomes more intolerable by the day as pilots are pushed to the brink and possibly beyond over the winter and into spring, the exodus will increase including resignations, retirements, medical leaves for physical issues and psychological stress. We must remember that pilots are human and I'm concerned greatly at how far this group of humans may be pushed by those unwilling to see the risks of doing so. Many pilots seeing their age and the pointlessness of wasting their remaining years being abused to that degree and seeing their income not justifying it will throw in the towel to ensure their summer isn't destroyed (let alone their overall health) and a large number of retirements across the board in all fleet types may kick in just before next summer when AA is tender and just emerging from BK. This may become a self-sustaining disaster as many others are pressed against the wall even harder to make up for it which may only increase attrition to intolerable levels and there will be no appetite for any bailouts from the remaining pilots at that point. I expect a high potential for a bad summer if the UCC rubber stamps a path like that for AA and that's with AA fresh out of BK and bills that have to be paid. Not a good situation should that be orchestrated by the UCC.

My point is, sure the UCC could do a lot of things and very well may as make no mistake, THEY are in control of the debtor, but at this point there is no road back for AA pilots to that TA in any way, shape or form and thus whatever the road ahead provides (good, bad or ugly), then that is what awaits. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see this carrier rocked to its core before someone steps in and says "enough". It already seems the "die has been cast" for a crazy train that even judge Lane will become a spectator to. We've been told in no uncertain terms by our union that this management team doesn't just underappreciate us, but openly despises us and that has been demonstrated in the past by public ridicule ("bricks in the backpack"). There is simply NO WAY a healthy, competitive company can be born or nurtured with this level of toxicity that gets intensified by the day. This Bankruptcy is WAY beyond that of the others with respect to the seething hatred and dysfunctionality among the two sides (management and pilots) and IMO, it would be serious error to just look at this as just another chapter 11 with the usual disagreements. It's sad the creditors with long-term interests are oblvious to the fact they are blindly building a house with ever rotting wood and bad cement. Even if we get a contract at this point, I think expecting a "premier" product is laughable from people so hideously abused to this degree and it leaves me speechless there are people out there who think they can.

For now, let's watch the show and see where it goes and where it goes, nobody knows........

BTW, one should take the UCC's statements in context. In court, I think they were sending a message to the debtor. Now, they are sending a message to the pilots. I see this latest "clarification" to their court comments as more of "managing the expectations" of the pilots to not become intoxicated with their perceived leverage and expecting an industry leading offer. Hopefully though, THEY understand that the provisions of that LBFO or anything simply "re-worked" is dead as dog**** with the pilots.

ForeverFO

I still like my "nuclear" option. Actually, there might be two phases to it.

Assuming traditional pilot pressures have NO effect, and AMR is hell-bent on applying the term sheet or worse...

Under the filthy RLA, the APA has few legal options to withhold services in these circumstances. We know the courts and judges are owned by AMR. They will be used as bludgeons against the APA. The answer is simple... dissolve the APA as a legal entity.

Phase one would be a mass retirement. There are hundreds of pilots between 58 and 65 who have little to lose. 750 pilots retiring (or initiating the process) in a 6 week span as the holidays approach is a small tactical nuke.

The next step (the strategic nuke) is to dissolve the APA as a legal entity. Liquidate the assets and distribute them to the membership. There'd be no union officers to threaten or even throw in jail, no assets to attach. You'd now have 8,000+ "independent contractors" dealing one on one with AMR. What each person does, is up to him or her. There'd be potential mass firings, draconian threats, and sure there'd be scablike creatures who would cave and creep back to work... but a lot more would simply withhold services by whatever means they deemed best.

texavia

Not as asinine as your braying.

tsquare

You know it is one thing for someone who works there to say that, but for hockeypilot, who has no skin in the game to urge the mass suicide that he seemingly thinks is a good idea, IS an asinine thing. You want to go down that road and be proud of it.. go for it. I am not going to urge you to do so, because I think it foolish. Call it braying if you want, I feel sorry for your predicament and wish you luck. I hope you have a job lined up if you decide to go this route to it's conclusion. It's bad out there.

texavia

OK, I think I got ya, if hockeypilot states an opinion, he's asinine; however, you having the exact same lack of skin in the game and calling something "fooolish" makes you what - a genius or a hypocrite?

tsquare

Go get 'em tough guy.