AA Exec Platinum's response to AA email
09-26-2012, 08:27 AM
#21
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Gunga Galunga
not sure if you read this link from another thread on the AMR bankruptcy, but if you're looking for a little information, this blog entry is well written and insightful. Thanks to 80kts for finding the link and posting it.
Risk Report » Blog Archive » Response to Fox News Biased Reporting on American Airlines
Risk Report » Blog Archive » Response to Fox News Biased Reporting on American Airlines
"The difference is management philosophy at Southwest, Their CEO recently stated that the most important people for Southwest are not customers, but employees. Southwest believes that if they take care and respect employees then the employees will take care and respect their customers and business will be good."
That's an interesting management perspective that only made sense to me as I thought about it more. What's challenging for the flying public to relate to (and I'll be the first to admit) is how these different groups (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, etc.) always seem to be at odds with the company and in turn one another regarding labor and contract negotiation/disputes. On more than one occasion last week, I had a gate agent lay the square blame of this issue on the pilots. So, in a sense, I see where the Southwest approach (while very touchy feely
makes great sense.Anyway, I've probably spent way too much time on this topic. Never meant to be disrespectful to the pilots profession or those outstanding pilots at AA. Just a frustrated passenger with no organized labor experience trying to navigate these waters...
By the way, was neat to see this was written by a former U2 pilot, one of the planes I am most fascinated by. James May of Top Gear fame had a rather cool series on the Dragon Lady!
09-26-2012, 09:03 AM
#22
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,865
Originally Posted by hunterjah
So, how do you explain a surge in cancellations and delays? Would really be interested to hear another reason. I'm pretty sure the AA fleet has been aging for "some" time...
Very easily,
Because during normal operations most Pilots routinely go above and beyond what is called for in the contract just to keep things moving along. Hustling through the airport, being proactive and taking action ahead of time to prevent delays. Calling not once but two or three times for a gate agent or mechanic when needed. Calling catering or for a fuel truck before it even becomes an issue. All the Pilots need to do to totally throw the system into chaos is to stop doing the "extra" things that are not contractual.
What motivation do the Pilots have to go above and beyond when the company goes to a judge and says "Through the contract out so we can impose terms on these guys?"
By the way, after the dust settles that same management team rewards themselves with million dollar bonuses for reducing costs and turning around the company.
The amazing thing is that management thinks they can pi$$ on labor and labor will just keep giving 110%.
Scoop
09-26-2012, 10:19 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by Scoop
Very easily,
Because during normal operations most Pilots routinely go above and beyond what is called for in the contract just to keep things moving along. Hustling through the airport, being proactive and taking action ahead of time to prevent delays. Calling not once but two or three times for a gate agent or mechanic when needed. Calling catering or for a fuel truck before it even becomes an issue. All the Pilots need to do to totally throw the system into chaos is to stop doing the "extra" things that are not contractual.
What motivation do the Pilots have to go above and beyond when the company goes to a judge and says "Through the contract out so we can impose terms on these guys?"
By the way, after the dust settles that same management team rewards themselves with million dollar bonuses for reducing costs and turning around the company.
The amazing thing is that management thinks they can pi$$ on labor and labor will just keep giving 110%.
Scoop
Because during normal operations most Pilots routinely go above and beyond what is called for in the contract just to keep things moving along. Hustling through the airport, being proactive and taking action ahead of time to prevent delays. Calling not once but two or three times for a gate agent or mechanic when needed. Calling catering or for a fuel truck before it even becomes an issue. All the Pilots need to do to totally throw the system into chaos is to stop doing the "extra" things that are not contractual.
What motivation do the Pilots have to go above and beyond when the company goes to a judge and says "Through the contract out so we can impose terms on these guys?"
By the way, after the dust settles that same management team rewards themselves with million dollar bonuses for reducing costs and turning around the company.
The amazing thing is that management thinks they can pi$$ on labor and labor will just keep giving 110%.
Scoop
09-26-2012, 10:48 AM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
In a new statement from Tom Hoban, I see more sense in what's being said. Basically, the implication to the statement below is more is/was happening behind the scenes to make the planes leave on time. Without a contract in place, pilots feel more concern in taking the extrra steps necessary to get these planes on their way on time all the time. OK, I'm starting to weed through all this mess!
“You’ve got to realize, without the safety net of a contract guys are going to engage in some cautious operational decision-making," says Tom Hoban of the Allied Pilots Association. "This corporation can come in at any time and terminate anyone for cause. So we're going to dot our “i's” and cross our “t’s. It's a lot like pulling up alongside a state trooper on the highway, How are you going to behave? Well, I'm going to go the speed limit. I'm going to use my turn signals. I'm going to do everything I can to stay within the limit of law. It's hard to describe the effect on how we operate, and it does tend to cause to be a bit more cautious because our license are on the line here.”
“You’ve got to realize, without the safety net of a contract guys are going to engage in some cautious operational decision-making," says Tom Hoban of the Allied Pilots Association. "This corporation can come in at any time and terminate anyone for cause. So we're going to dot our “i's” and cross our “t’s. It's a lot like pulling up alongside a state trooper on the highway, How are you going to behave? Well, I'm going to go the speed limit. I'm going to use my turn signals. I'm going to do everything I can to stay within the limit of law. It's hard to describe the effect on how we operate, and it does tend to cause to be a bit more cautious because our license are on the line here.”
09-26-2012, 06:24 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: A-320 F/O
Posts: 27
Hmmmmmmm
Originally Posted by hunterjah
I'm not a pilot. I am an AA Gold/Platinum member that has been flying AA religiously since 1995. I flew to Atlanta last week and sat through one cancellation and three maintenance delays. I've never experienced this kind of delay on any one trip since my first flights in 1995. For the pilot union head to blame this on an aging fleet is a complete pile of sh*t.
I received the same email from Mrs Rubin. I have nothing to prove the case she makes, but I sure as hell know you can't blame this on an aging fleet. It's pretty funny these delays coincide with the voiding of AA's pilot contracts. But, hey, what do I know...I'm just the d*&khead buying $1,500 tickets to NY on American...so much for loyalty.
I received the same email from Mrs Rubin. I have nothing to prove the case she makes, but I sure as hell know you can't blame this on an aging fleet. It's pretty funny these delays coincide with the voiding of AA's pilot contracts. But, hey, what do I know...I'm just the d*&khead buying $1,500 tickets to NY on American...so much for loyalty.
Hunterjah
"For the pilot union head to blame this on an aging fleet is a complete pile of sh*t"
"but I sure as hell know you can't blame this on an aging fleet."
So, do you know a lot about "aging fleets" or not? Because that's what your post suggests. Got a lot of aviation experience, do you? Riding in the back doesn't qualify as "Flight Time". Do you know anything about the experience and qualifications of the Pilots that are flying your airplane? Are you just jealous that we love what we do as jobs, it's just the management folks that leave a lot to be desired, in most cases. Why do you believe that since you buy a $1500 ticket and you've flown on AA since 1995 you possess any credibility when it comes to critiquing the decisions your pilots make? I, for one, appreciate ALL of our passengers business, but I doubt anyone from the front seats will be calling you when there are aviation decisions to be made. AA is a great airline. You can't go wrong. Trust the folks in front. Your safety is their number 1 priority. Patience young Jedi.
No harm or malice intended.
C Ya....Sluggo
P.S. I don't fly for AA and I didn't call you d*&khead
09-26-2012, 07:43 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,978
Originally Posted by justfun
Hunterjah,
Let me give you the rest of the story. This airline, including the mechanics and pilots, are under extreme scrutiny from the FAA, because of largest fine ever against an airline, $162 million, for bad maintenance. The FAA is doing pre-flight inspections of both the interior and exterior of the planes, where they find items that need to be in the maintenance log. Some times the FAA tells the FO what he has found, which is great, but other times he does not tell the FO, just to see if these same items are reported. If those items aren't reported the FAA can fine the pilot for failure to report these items, which is $10,000!
Here is an example of what I am talking about. I showed up for a flight the other day out of DFW and the captain tells me that the FAA has done a preflight and there are items in the book that our maintenance was addressing, we took about a 30 minute delay to resolve these issues.
There are times we don't get to the plane until about 20 minutes before departure because of the way our sequence is scheduled by the company. We could be scheduled for 50 minutes on the ground, but have to change planes and terminals for the next leg of our trip. Our part one says we must tell the passengers good bye, which is good, but that takes 15-20 minutes, then we would have a 20 minute transit to the next gate which at best leaves us 20 before departure time. The FO still must do the preflight, which with this airline being watched more closely by the FAA, he does a very thorough inspection and takes his time so as not to miss even on little thing. So when he does find something that needs to be addressed that could possibly be 5 minutes before scheduled departure time. At that time maintenance is notified of the discrepancy and it is placed in the book.
Let me give you the rest of the story. This airline, including the mechanics and pilots, are under extreme scrutiny from the FAA, because of largest fine ever against an airline, $162 million, for bad maintenance. The FAA is doing pre-flight inspections of both the interior and exterior of the planes, where they find items that need to be in the maintenance log. Some times the FAA tells the FO what he has found, which is great, but other times he does not tell the FO, just to see if these same items are reported. If those items aren't reported the FAA can fine the pilot for failure to report these items, which is $10,000!
Here is an example of what I am talking about. I showed up for a flight the other day out of DFW and the captain tells me that the FAA has done a preflight and there are items in the book that our maintenance was addressing, we took about a 30 minute delay to resolve these issues.
There are times we don't get to the plane until about 20 minutes before departure because of the way our sequence is scheduled by the company. We could be scheduled for 50 minutes on the ground, but have to change planes and terminals for the next leg of our trip. Our part one says we must tell the passengers good bye, which is good, but that takes 15-20 minutes, then we would have a 20 minute transit to the next gate which at best leaves us 20 before departure time. The FO still must do the preflight, which with this airline being watched more closely by the FAA, he does a very thorough inspection and takes his time so as not to miss even on little thing. So when he does find something that needs to be addressed that could possibly be 5 minutes before scheduled departure time. At that time maintenance is notified of the discrepancy and it is placed in the book.
09-27-2012, 06:55 AM
#28
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by surfnski
I couldnt agree more. New money vs old money. Probably drives a lifted truck too.
Also, terribly sorry your virgin ears had to hear such dastardly language. I can see from so many constructive comments that pilots do speak no wrong. I will crawl back into my little back seat and shut up now like a good little b*tch (er, passenger, oh see there I go again) is supposed to do. I will politely poke my head in next time and say thank you and will never post anything that could be construed as questioning the integrity and professionalism of such a loyal and noble group.
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