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ERJ135 02-22-2013 03:35 PM

APA beware!!
 
Not that it matters too much to guys at AA, I know you guys have your own problems. However, it should be noted that majority of Eagle guys will be coming over at some point. (Maybe). Just a friendly heads up for when these guys come over from the EGL MEC. These were two emails we received in the last 24 hrs. All I can say is APA Beware!! Just passing this along. Good Luck.


(Names, Email, and phone numbers "X" out for obvious reasons)

February 21, 2013

Fellow DFW pilots:

I’ve had concerns for some time about uncontrolled spending of our union dues and the lack of accountability for such spending. Prior to our special MEC meeting last week, I visited the finance department at ALPA national to review expenses submitted over the last year. ALPA encourages all members in good standing to do the same.

I discovered a pattern of spending that can only be described as disturbing. There were numerous bar tabs for large amounts expensed as “snacks.” However, rather than provide a list of each expense report, I’ll reference one example and my efforts to shed light on the report.

While reviewing expense reports, I found that Axxxxxy Gxxxxxxxz submitted an expense for a group meal on August 3, 2012, for a restaurant in Washington, D.C. Eighteen people attended with a final bill of $1,000.00. I was unable to locate a receipt for the $1,000.00 restaurant bill, but I did find a receipt for that date that totaled almost $2,100.00. I later found the meal was expensed under two different line items: $1,000.00 was coded to “group meals >5 people,” and the remaining $1,085.00 was coded to “MEC meetings.” That explains my inability to find a matching receipt to the meal expense report.

That total seemed high to me, so I pulled up the menu for the restaurant and calculated the charge for each attendee to purchase the most expensive appetizer, entrée and dessert, and one $3 drink. I also included a 15 percent gratuity and applicable taxes. The total came to over $1,500.00. That is over a $500.00 difference. I then contacted the manager of the restaurant and was told a detailed receipt was easily available. I felt that our MEC chairman should provide a detailed receipt to the MEC as an explanation of his actions.

I felt it highly probable that the balance was used to purchase alcohol. This would have been in direct violation of MEC policy. I tried to discuss this at the meeting on Tuesday because I felt it was relevant to another item on the meeting agenda. Tony refused to allow that discussion to take place and made no attempt to discuss the issue with me. I made myself available after the meeting for anyone to ask me what I had found, and one of the attendees of the group meal admitted to me that alcohol was consumed at that meal.

The next day, an ALPA executive vice president asked to speak with me privately. He said that if I made this information public, ALPA national would come down hard on the Eagle MEC. Although this is not a personal threat towards me, I felt it was an attempt to get me to drop the issue and was an indication of just how serious this matter was.

Later that day, the Eagle MEC chairman and vice chairman approached the LEC 83 chairman, Vxl Jxxxxr, and asked if he would be interested in the MEC secretary-treasurer position if they could have the current secretary-treasurer removed from office. Tony has also been pushing to remove the treasurer from the approval process. He then could have the vice chairman, Dxxe Rxxxr, approve his expenses. With this in place, what little accountability we have now would be further compromised. Deduce what you wish from these actions.

The MEC chairman will try and portray me as a trouble maker and say that what I have presented isn’t accurate and contains half truths and lies. I can assure you I have embellished nothing. He will say we need to focus on the big picture and not be distracted by petty and trivial issues.

You elected me to ensure that your interests would be represented on the MEC. I take that responsibility very seriously. Part of that responsibility is to ensure that your dues monies are used appropriately. I need some help carrying that out. Your money is being wasted on excess at a time when we are taking cuts in compensation and you are being forced to pay higher dues to ALPA. I urge you to call Tony at 6xx-xxx-xxx7 or e-mail him at [email protected] and ask him to explain the necessity of ignoring policy and abusing his position as MEC chairman. Please CC me on your e-mail inquiries. I would like to know how you respond to this.


Kxxxy Pxxl
Vice Chairman
EGL Council 83



(Today)


Fellow DFW pilots:


Yesterday, I sent out a letter to the DFW pilots concerning the out of control spending by our MEC chairman. I expected a mature and comprehensive response to the allegations but instead, the chairman chose to openly threaten my career as an airline pilot. The direct threat came in the form of a text message with a photograph attached. The photo insinuated that I was drinking while in uniform. It was taken during an MEC meeting in July 2012 at the ALPA National Headquarters in Virginia. I had just commuted in for the meeting, and the rest of the council were already having a catered dinner. In the photograph, it appears that I am drinking alcohol in uniform. The text message from TXXy GXXXXXXz said only this: “Someone sent me this, thought you should know.” This comment was clearly meant to intimidate me. Putting my career in jeopardy by circulating a photo taken out of context shows the lengths he is willing to go to in order to deflect attention away from his own actions. All this has managed to accomplish is to strengthen my resolve to ensure accountability and put an end to the excesses demonstrated by our MEC leadership.


I have yet to receive any other communication from the MEC leadership.





Xxxxxxx Xxxxxx (identity withheld)

Vice Chairman

EGL Council 83

TQ Nola 02-23-2013 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERJ135 (Post 1358284)
However, it should be noted that majority of Eagle guys will be coming over at some point. (Maybe).

How do you figure?

Mason32 02-23-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TQ Nola (Post 1358623)
How do you figure?

Probably because he can read.

TQ Nola 02-23-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 1358767)
Probably because he can read.


Nice snark, I like it.

The bulk hired before whatever the cutoff date was get preferential interview, not hiring. So really, how do you figure? Or are you also mistakenly equating the two things?

eaglefly 02-23-2013 12:43 PM

Really, only a little more than 1/3 can consider themselves likely to transfer to AA in the future. Perhaps 150 numbered guys and 824 through an arbitration award. The rest depend on a promise by management, so that's another 1800 pilots or so.

As for Eagle pilots problems with union cronyism, abuse and corruption, many former Eagle pilots are at AA, so I'm sure this ridiculous scene is not an unkown.

Mason32 02-23-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TQ Nola (Post 1358795)
Nice snark, I like it.

The bulk hired before whatever the cutoff date was get preferential interview, not hiring. So really, how do you figure? Or are you also mistakenly equating the two things?

Actually, if you READ (there's that word again) you'd see it says preferential hiring. The preferential interviews are the ones hired after October 11, 2011. There are 238 with numbers, 824 transfers, about 1700 preferential hires, and now anybody after 10-11-2011 gets a preferential interview.

I don't think it will get beyond the 824. Rumor is Eagle plans to withhold them from leaving at any more than 20 a month... Which means it would be decades before any of those other guys got over here.

Mason32 02-23-2013 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1358802)
Really, only a little more than 1/3 can consider themselves likely to transfer to AA in the future. Perhaps 150 numbered guys and 824 through an arbitration award. The rest depend on a promise by management, so that's another 1800 pilots or so.

As for Eagle pilots problems with union cronyism, abuse and corruption, many former Eagle pilots are at AA, so I'm sure this ridiculous scene is not an unkown.

The preferential hires were the result of a grievance settlement. The new thing of offering interviews to those hired after 10-11-2011 is the one that is just a management promise.

eaglefly 02-23-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 1358820)
The preferential hires were the result of a grievance settlement. The new thing of offering interviews to those hired after 10-11-2011 is the one that is just a management promise.

Really ? :eek:

Every Eagle pilot on property post 10/11/11 has a contractual right to an AA new-hire position ?

I was unaware of that.............could you post the grievance award/settlement ?

BTW, I heard earlier this week that AA street hiring will be put on hold and they only plan to go down the list to the last AA native (perhaps to start the 3 year clock ?). That will leave perhaps 150 Eagle flows with numbers (the large block group at the very bottom) out in the cold until new management sorts out the plan for AA/U and the regionals.

Just what I've heard.................

TQ Nola 02-23-2013 02:36 PM

..........

ERJ135 02-23-2013 03:04 PM

Hahaha, yeah that's why I said (Maybe).. I highly doubt many will be allowed anyway.. Winkley has already been on record as saying they cannot allow 40 per month from Eagle. Not enough staffing. That wasn't really the point. I have no doubt though our MEC and NC will be some of the first street hires at AA... Just saying..
On a side note, the group hired before 10/11/11 but, after the 824. I don't have the language but, I believe its set out so that these people will be offered a job, no interview, no pre-employment/background checks. FWIW

Mason32 02-23-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1358845)
Really ? :eek:

Every Eagle pilot on property post 10/11/11 has a contractual right to an AA new-hire position ?

I was unaware of that.............could you post the grievance award/settlement ?

BTW, I heard earlier this week that AA street hiring will be put on hold and they only plan to go down the list to the last AA native (perhaps to start the 3 year clock ?). That will leave perhaps 150 Eagle flows with numbers (the large block group at the very bottom) out in the cold until new management sorts out the plan for AA/U and the regionals.

Just what I've heard.................

You got it backwards, the pre 10-11-2011 are the preferential hires... Post 10-11-2011 are the preferential interviews.

But like I said, it will be decades before any of them get to be interviewed. It looks more like a hiring ploy to me.

eaglefly 02-23-2013 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 1358864)
You got it backwards, the pre 10-11-2011 are the preferential hires... Post 10-11-2011 are the preferential interviews.

But like I said, it will be decades before any of them get to be interviewed. It looks more like a hiring ploy to me.

Actually a typo. I meant PRE- 10/11 Eagle pilots. Could you post the settlement that guarantees all Eagle pilots hired prior to that date a new-hire position at AA ?

Thanx.

Mason32 02-24-2013 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1359079)
Actually a typo. I meant PRE- 10/11 Eagle pilots. Could you post the settlement that guarantees all Eagle pilots hired prior to that date a new-hire position at AA ?

Thanx.

I emailed an Eagle guy for it yesterday when this heated up. I try to keep up with all the crap AMR does to its pilot groups, both at Eagle and here. I'm old school... This is my profession, I don't have side jobs and second careers. This one has been good to me. I have about 3 more years before I have to pass my left seat to the next guy. We could do much worse than take a bunch of them on here.

swaayze 02-24-2013 07:00 AM

I think his point is that it's non-contractual. Just a promise from mgmt. I basically laughed it off when it was first announced, so I'm not sure what, if anything, we have on it in writing.

Mason32 02-24-2013 07:21 AM

This is what I was sent

Seems pretty clear that these "protected pilots" - as they call them - have preferential hiring. The ones after 10-11-2011 just get preferential interviews.

Quote:

In full and final settlement of all issues and claims arising out of the above grievance,
American Eagle Airlines, Inc. ("Eagle") and the Air Line Pilots Association, International
("ALPA or "the Association") hereby agree to the following, with the understanding that
this Grievance Settlement Agreement ("this Grievance Settlement Agreement") is not a
precedent for any other matter between them, nor is it evidence that can be referred to
by anyone in a future case concerning interpretation or application of the Eagle-ALPA
collective bargaining agreement except as to the terms of this Grievance Settlement
Agreement.:
1. Preferential Hiring Program For Eagle Pilots At American Airlines.
As a sign of its respect for the professionalism and career interests of the Eagle pilots
represented by ALPA and in order to implement this Grievance Settlement Agreement,
Eagle has requested, and American Airlines, Inc. ("American" or "AA) has agreed in a
separate Agreement, that American will provide preferential hiring to Eagle pilots who
are on the Eagle Pilots Seniority List on October 11, 201 1 ("Protected Pilots") for pilot
employment opportunities at American in accordance with the terms of that separate
Agreement. That separate Agreement further provides that Eagle and ALPA shall
agree upon the terms, process and sequence by which Eagle pilots will be eligible for
the opportunities to be made available pursuant to that separate Agreement. Such
terms are set forth in Section 3 below.
2. No Diminution of Prior Rights.
a. Pre-Existing Rights. ltis the intent of the parties that the creation of the
Preferential Hiring Program set forth herein shall not in any respect diminish or
otherwise impact the pre-existing rights and privileges of pilots already employed
by American Airlines pursuant to the applicable collective bargaining agreement,
including recall rights for furloughed pilots on the American Airlines System
Seniority List. It is further the intent of the parties that the creation of the
Preferential Hiring Program set forth herein shall not in any respect diminish or
otherwise impact the rights and privileges of either (i) the 240 Eagle pilots who
currently possess AA pilot seniority numbers as a result of Letter 3, Supplement
W (the "240 Pilots"), or (ii) the Eagle pilots eligible for the 824 AA pilot jobs that
will be offered to Eagle pilots pursuant to the remedy issued by Arbitrator Nicolau
in grievance number FLO-0108 (the "824 Positions").
b. Insufficient Pilots under subparagraph a. The parties agree that when the
list of pilots referred to in clauses (i) and (ii) of subparagraph 2.a. above has been
exhausted, then the next AA new hire pilot positions made available to Eagle
pilots pursuant to this Grievance Settlement Agreement shall be offered as they
become available at AA to other Protected Pilots in seniority order. Such
positions offered under the preceding sentence shall be considered as "positions
offered under this Grievance Settlement Agreement."
c. Waiver of Training Freeze for Certain Eagle Pilots Eligible for the 824
Positions. In the event that a training freeze or seat lock results in a situation
where there are an insufficient number of Eagle Captains who have satisfied
such a training freeze or seat lock who are eligible and willing to accept one of
the 824 Positions, then Eagle agrees that it will waive such provision to the
extent necessary to permit Eagle Captains to fill the minimum required number of
seats in an AA training class as part of the 824 Positions.
3. Procedures For Eagle Pilot Advancement to Opportunities At American.
a. All Eagle Pilots As of October 11, 2011 Are Eligible. Each pilot on the
Eagle Pilots' System Seniority List as of October 11, 201 1 shall be eligible to be
offered an opportunity for a pilot position at AA as such positions become
available pursuant to the terms of American's separate Agreement with Eagle
and ALPA. An eligible pilot whose employment with Eagle terminates shall no
longer be an eligible pilot, provided that any eligible pilot who is involuntarily
terminated shall be reinstated to the list of eligible pilots in the event that such
pilot's termination is reversed pursuant to the grievance and arbitration provisions
of the Eagle-ALPA collective bargaining agreement.
b. Offers In Seniority Order. When American is hiring new hire pilots, positions
in new hire pilot training classes at American shall be made available to eligible
Eagle pilots who are in active status or on furlough status at the time that the
offer is made. Pilots on authorized leaves of absence must return to active
service at Eagle in order to be eligible to receive an offer of a position in a new
hire pilot training class, except as provided in paragraph 3.f. below. Such offers
will be made in the order of pilot seniority at Eagle. For purposes of this
Grievance Settlement Agreement, the words "new hire pilots" mean pilots hired
off the street, (i.e., not including pilots arriving by merger or initial training classes
for pilots training onto the AA certificate from a merged carrier).
c. Standing Expression of Intent. Eagle will publish and maintain a website on
which each Eagle pilot may affirmatively state on a standing basis that he or she
is willing to accept an opportunity for a pilot position at AA offered under the
Preferential Hiring Program. Each Eagle pilot who receives an offer of a position
in an AA new hire class will have up until sixty (60) days prior to the
commencement of the AA new hire class to accept or decline the pilot position
offered. An Eagle pilot who has previously declined an offer from AA (including
an Eagle pilot who has declined such an offer as part of the 240 Pilots or the 824
Positions) shall thereafter remain eligible to make a standing expression of intent
and to receive offers for subsequent opportunities for a pilot position at AA in
Eagle seniority order until the most junior pilot remaining on the list of eligible
Eagle pilots has received an offer to join a new hire class at American, provided
that pilots on authorized leave on such date shall have the additional time
provided by subparagraph 3.f below.
d. Release By Eagle. When AA is hiring, Eagle shall release a minimum of
twenty-five (25) Eagle pilots per month who have accepted pilot positions at AA
under the Preferential Hiring Program to fill AA new hire positions, provided that,
if American becomes obligated to offer sufficient pilot positions to fill a minimum
of 50% of each new hire class pursuant to paragraph 4 of the separate
Agreement, then Eagle shall use its best efforts to release a sufficient number of
pilots per month to fill such classes, but in no event less than 25.
e. Acceptance of Employment at American Terminates Pilot Status At
Eagle. Eagle and ALPA agree that an Eagle pilot who accepts a position in an
AA pilot training class shall be treated as having terminated his status as an
Eagle pilot as of the day he enters class at AA.
f. Termination of Preferential Hiring Program. On the date that the most
junior pilot remaining on the list of eligible Eagle pilots receives an offer of a
position in an AA new hire class, the Preferential Hiring Program will terminate as
to all Protected Pilots, except that Protected Pilots who are on leave on the date
of termination of Preferential Hiring Program will be offered one final opportunity
to return to Eagle from leave in order to accept an offer under the Preferential
Hiring Program, with such option to return to be exercised within one hundred
twenty (120) calendar days of the date of termination specified above.
4. Successorship.
This Grievance Settlement Agreement shall be binding on Eagle and ALPA and on any
Successor or Assign of Eagle or ALPA, unless or until changed in accordance with the
provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended. For the purposes of this Grievance
Settlement Agreement (a) as to Eagle, a Successor or Assign shall be defined as an
entity that acquires all or substantially all of the assets of Eagle, or that acquires control
of Eagle and (b) "control" or a "controlling interest" means ownership of securities that
constitute andlor are exchangeable into, exercisable for or convertible into more than
fifly percent (50%) of another entity's common stock or of the voting power of the other
entity's securities entitled to vote for the other entity's governing board, or the power to
elect a majority of the other entity's governing board. Any Successor or Assign shall, as
a condition to entering into an agreement that is intended to or will result in a transaction
that will establish a Successor or Assign, be required to commit in writing to adhere to
the provisions of this Grievance Settlement Agreement. A copy of such commitment
shall be provided to the Association no later than the next day after it has been signed.
5. Scope Clause Changes In Event Eagle Disaffiliates.
Eagle and ALPA have agreed to modifications to Section 1, Scope as set forth in the
attached Scope Letter of Agreement that, subject to ALPA ratification, will become
effective in the event, and upon the date, that Eagle is no longer under the control of
AMR.
6. Withdrawal of Grievance.
Upon execution of this Grievance Settlement Agreement by Eagle, and of the separate
Agreement between Eagle, ALPA and American referenced in paragraph 1 above, the
Association shall withdraw grievance number MEC-0411 with prejudice on all issues
presented therein, i.e., the transfer of Operating Assets currently owned, leased or
operated by Eagle from Eagle to American and uncovering of Eagle flying associated
with those Operating Assets. Eagle and ALPA will jointly advise Arbitrator Nicolau that
a settlement has been reached and that a decision will not be necessary in this case.
As part of the withdrawal and settlement of grievance number MEC 041 1, the parties
agree that ownership or leasehold interests in all Operating Assets currently owned,
leased or operated by Eagle may be transferred to American (or its designee). For
purposes of this paragraph, the term "Operating Assets" shall mean any aircraft, route,
slot, or gate used in Eagle flight operations and the term "flight operations" shall mean
the operation of aircraft by Eagle in revenue service or in support of such revenue
service.
7. Contingencies.
Both Eagle and ALPA are defendants in litigation in which certain pilots challenge the
validity of the Nicolau Remedy Award in FLO-0108 referenced in Paragraph 2 above.
Both Eagle and ALPA believe that the Award is proper and well-founded in fact and in
law. Nonetheless, in an abundance of caution, the parties believe it prudent to address
the consequences for this Grievance Settlement Agreement in the event that the Award
is vacated. In that event, the Eagle pilots who could have held the 824 positions
identified in that Award (as well as any former Eagle pilots with AA seniority numbers
who lose their positions at AA as a result of any vacatur of the Award) (collectively the
"affected pilots") shall be offered an opportunity for a position in an AA new hire training
class. First, affected pilots with an AA seniority number shall be offered positions in the
order of their seniority at AA. Then, all remaining affected pilots shall be offered an
opportunity for a position in an AA new hire training class in the order of their Eagle
seniority, along with all other Eagle pilots.
8. Dispute Resolution. All disputes concerning the interpretation or application of this
~rievanceS ettlement ~ ~ r e e m e nintc,l uding any and all disputes about the eligibility or
seauence of selection of an Eaale uilot for an ouuortunitv to enter training at American.
shall be determined through thegrievance and arbitration procedures contained in the
Eagle-ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Dated this 19th day of July, 201 1.
For American Eagle Airlines, Inc For Air Line Pilots Association
Brian Sweep
Contract Compliance Chairman

Carl Spackler 02-24-2013 07:36 AM

Back to the topic of the thread:

Is anyone else troubled by an LEC leader being sent a text message with a photo that appears to show him drinking in uniform in order to shut him up? Especially since the photo was of the LEC leader having just commuted in for the union meeting where the photo was taken. Is this the latest behavior of ALPA under Mr. Moak? Who takes photographs of union members at union meetings for the purpose of using against you if needed some day?

Are we all OK with that?

Carl

RyanP 02-24-2013 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1359079)
Actually a typo. I meant PRE- 10/11 Eagle pilots. Could you post the settlement that guarantees all Eagle pilots hired prior to that date a new-hire position at AA ?

Thanx.

Quote:

I think his point is that it's non-contractual. Just a promise from mgmt. I basically laughed it off when it was first announced, so I'm not sure what, if anything, we have on it in writing.
It's a grievance settlement over the aircraft transfer. It is a signed document in writing. Now, I'm not saying if it's going to happen or not, but it's in writing. On the ALPA Eagle-MEC website, under the contract tab.

Here is the full settlement agreement .PDF for preferential hiring (no interview):
http://www.filedropper.com/mec-0411settlementagreement2

here is the FAQ of the how/why about the settlement agreement:
http://www.filedropper.com/110720gri...tlementfaq10-1

let me know if the links don't work.

Mason32 02-24-2013 10:44 AM

Sure looks like about 2700 of their pilots have rights to jobs. The rest just have managements promise of an interview.

If 2700 of them can eventually come here with no interview, why don't we just send them APA request for representation cards; get them under our union, and end managements ability to play one against the other.
Sounds to me like a majority of their guys want to burn ALPA to the ground anyway.

RyanP 02-24-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 1359304)
Sure looks like about 2700 of their pilots have rights to jobs. The rest just have managements promise of an interview.

If 2700 of them can eventually come here with no interview, why don't we just send them APA request for representation cards; get them under our union, and end managements ability to play one against the other.
Sounds to me like a majority of their guys want to burn ALPA to the ground anyway.

This has been brought up on the Eagle side numerous times recently since the 824 and preferential hiring happened.. ALPA reps say they brought the one list ideas to APA and tells us APA is not interested. APA reps have said ALPA never came to them with this. Somebody is fibbing.. and there is a major conflict of interest here with ALPA.

ERJ135 02-24-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1359229)
Back to the topic of the thread:

Is anyone else troubled by an LEC leader being sent a text message with a photo that appears to show him drinking in uniform in order to shut him up? Especially since the photo was of the LEC leader having just commuted in for the union meeting where the photo was taken. Is this the latest behavior of ALPA under Mr. Moak? Who takes photographs of union members at union meetings for the purpose of using against you if needed some day?

Are we all OK with that?

Carl

Thank you :o Hence the purpose of the thread..

Mason32 02-24-2013 05:29 PM

Somebody needs to make sure we know who these lecherous deviants are who would intentionally set somebody up like that. We don't need that kind of person on our property. Good moral character... Fail.

swaayze 02-24-2013 07:49 PM

I stand corrected, thanks.

32LTangoTen 02-26-2013 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1358845)
Really ? :eek:

Every Eagle pilot on property post 10/11/11 has a contractual right to an AA new-hire position ?

I was unaware of that.............could you post the grievance award/settlement ?

BTW, I heard earlier this week that AA street hiring will be put on hold and they only plan to go down the list to the last AA native (perhaps to start the 3 year clock ?). That will leave perhaps 150 Eagle flows with numbers (the large block group at the very bottom) out in the cold until new management sorts out the plan for AA/U and the regionals.

Just what I've heard.................

True story. No interview. Or AA medical check necessary. Flow through to every pilot on AE seniority list that has a DOH of 11OCT2011 and prior

32LTangoTen 02-26-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 1359515)
Somebody needs to make sure we know who these lecherous deviants are who would intentionally set somebody up like that. We don't need that kind of person on our property. Good moral character... Fail.

I'd love to name them here. Can I?

A Recall Petition is in progress. ~300 signatures in 3 days.

One has been quoted as saying "I don't give a ____". It's documented too.

eaglefly 02-26-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 32LTangoTen (Post 1360478)
True story. No interview. Or AA medical check necessary. Flow through to every pilot on AE seniority list that has a DOH of 11OCT2011 and prior

Are you sure........have you read the details of that "settlement" agreement ?

Is it possible that some are counting their chickens before they hatch ?

First of all, this agreement was devised prior to AMR (and Eagle's) Chapter 11 declaration. A bankruptcy that is still very much in progress.

Is there any language there that makes it bulletproof in a bankruptcy situation ?

Another additional concern is the statement, "Each pilot on the Eagle pilots system seniority list as of October 11, 2011 shall be eligible (a loose term) to be offered an opportunity (another loose term) for a pilots position at AA as such positions become available PERSUANT TO THE TERMS OF AMERICANS SEPERATE AGREEMENT WITH EAGLE AND ALPA".

- What are the terms of THAT agreement ?

- Since the langauge of that agreement is the definitive mechanism that this one relies on, the meaning of this settlement language depends on what that one stipulates.

Additionally, the validity of this settlement requires BOTH of these agreements to have been "executed", thus triggering ALPA's withdrawal of their grievance.

Have all three of those actions been accomplished ?

You see, I have read this agreement before and that was my original point of it being a "promise". My other point of having another post it here was to see if anyone has truly read it and understands its questionability given the present Chapter 11 situation. It seems to be shaky at best, filled with possible hidden land mines (depending on what the other agreement says), dependent upon actions which may or may not have occurred and as a last resort, its unkown ability to survive a bankruptcy by both of the offering parties.

Personally, I think it premature to consider this worth more than the paper it's printed on.

Starscream 02-26-2013 05:00 PM

''Opportunity'' and ''eligible'' were terms used in Letter 3/Supp W. The rights of pilots who held AA seniority numbers were never disputed by AA mgmt, hence they're flowing. There's no mention of AA mgmt disputing or objecting to the future rights of those Eagle pilots who'd comprise 35% of future AA newhire classes (i.e. the 'protected' AE pilots), even under bankruptcy. It was never mentioned under any 'term sheet.'

One thing I agree staunchly on...........that whole thing is indeed hardly worth the paper it is written on. It would take a damn long time for a pilot hired in 2011 to transfer to AA under that agreement. Any such pilot would likely have 3,000+ pilots hired off the street ahead of him/her between now and then. That ain't so hot.

eaglefly 02-26-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1360935)
''Opportunity'' and ''eligible'' were terms used in Letter 3/Supp W. The rights of pilots who held AA seniority numbers were never disputed by AA mgmt, hence they're flowing. There's no mention of AA mgmt disputing or objecting to the future rights of those Eagle pilots who'd comprise 35% of future AA newhire classes (i.e. the 'protected' AE pilots), even under bankruptcy. It was never mentioned under any 'term sheet.'

"Opportunity" was, but I don't recall the term "eligible". I don't have that contractual supplement handy though, so I may be wrong. The eligibility was completing IOE and meeting "CJ captain" status, but not used in that term. It was a minimal point anyway as the other issues are more questionable.

L3/SW was a contractual supplement with its own preamble, definitions and duration whereas this is simply a grievance resolution. Grievances can be wiped out along with contracts in Chapter 11. I don't know what the "other" agreement states, so it's difficult to know how it might impact this agreement. Eagle pilots leadership is awash in malfeasance and has hideously failed their pilots, so I'm not sure if either or both of these agreements have been executed and ALPA has dropped their grievance. Although AMR has CURRENTLY not overtly indicated any interest in altering this agreement, what the old management did may not be something new management is interested in, just like the present paint scheme and brand and the new management just got here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1360935)
One thing I agree staunchly on...........that whole thing is indeed hardly worth the paper it is written on. It would take a damn long time for a pilot hired in 2011 to transfer to AA under that agreement. Any such pilot would likely have 3,000+ pilots hired off the street ahead of him/her between now and then. That ain't so hot.

Agreed. As a practical benefit, it's weak. But, its future may be in question altogether depending on the whims of new management that did not negotiate this agreement and may not want the burden. The agreement between AMR and Eagle and ALPA that is unknown may provide more insight that offers an escape clause under certain circumstances and Chapter 11 with a management change has to be at the top of the list of opportunity to do that.


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