RedeyeAV8r

When I worked for the PAX side, these went very senior! 1 Short leg out
5 1/2 hours in the hotel and a short leg back.

Wiskey Driver

And just how do you propose we "move on"?? I really would like to know.

WD at AWA

R57 relay

Those that are still that way and work during the week still can go senior. Unfortunately a lot of ODANs now are like CLT-JFK,EWR,DTW, and ORD. They need to go.

cactusmike

We used to have just a couple of stand ups at AWA. It was one leg PHX to SNA., get in at 2230. 0630 departure back to PHX. 2.4 hours block for 8 hours of pay. Went very senior, but we had a limit of 1.5 hour legs going into the standup and they were limited to one leg in, one leg out.

For a short period of time we did have some really ugly CDO trips but they were not really stand ups since we never went to a hotel. We would do PHX LAS MCI, get into MCI at 0430 and then fly MCI to PHX at 0630. That led to some fatigue calls and a side letter to the contract prohibiting no takeoffs after 0400 domicile time if you had been on duty all night. I.e. "no sunrise service". One of the really good things that has been in our contract since 95.

FreighterGuyNow

They are the most senior lines for Pilots and F/A.

Thankfully, you'll never have to worry about it.

VenetianFryCook

As a reserve FO on the Airbus, I *VERY* rarely get any all-nighters, which is fine with me because I don't particularly care for them. BUT, some people clearly do which is why they so rarely remain in open time for reserve assignment.

R57 relay

I despise them and unfortunately they are in open time a lot for captains. I think it was last weekend that had 7 go to reserves in one day.

ForeverFO

At AA, I have never heard of a "stand up." From what I gathered... a "field break" of several hours in the middle of the night, no hotel, and another flight home? If that isn't what a stand-up is, can someone correct me?

At AA, any break greater than 4 hours got a hotel room, so the company simply did not schedule anything like that because it was expensive. More than once, We found ourselves with a broken jet at an international turn destination, and when the mechanic said "We're waiting on a part to come in on the next flight" and the delay is greater than 4 hours, the CA gets on the phone and gets us all a hotel room. "Call us when the jet is fixed."

We each (US/AA) have certain good and bad parts of our contracts and work rules. Bad for us is stuff like a 24 rest in the middle of a trip qualifying as fixing the 7 day on rule, and Reserve in general. We need to cherry pick the best work rules from each group, and insist they be implemented.

teddyballgame

Years ago, the all-nighters were the most senior trips in the East system (pre Trans-Atlantic, of course); because with the duty rigs in place at the time, one could fly only 10 or 11 of them a month, and get a full month's pay.

Unfortunately, those rigs were the first of many, many things that the East pilots starting giving away to management back in the early 90's.

I don't know what an all-nighter would pay today, but I would guess it to be considerably less than it used to be, and therefore not as attractive a trip as it once was.

R57 relay

I just looked at the open time for tomorrow and unless blockholders pick them up before 1300 today, 8 ODAN(on duty all night, continuous on duty, stand up RON, etc) will go to reserve capts in CLT. They range in pay from 5:00 to 6:34. They are MSY, RIC, ATL, BNA, EWR, ORF, ILM and STL. Most of the smaller cities aren't too bad since they are usually 319s and you can deplane and get to the hotel quicky. JFK and ORD on a 321(dang thing takes 3 days to deplane) are my least favorites.

Cities like ILM and ORF have few mainline flights and thus few RON opportunities. I get that, but ORD?

Lot's of people still love CODs and that is all they do. I have a good friend that with 27 years stays in the right seat of the 737 and pretty much that is all he does. But, the bad ones and those on weekends make it to the reserves.

I would much rather fly a red-eye than a COD. I recover faster. Personal preference. But, I have never understood why the company did them unless there was no other choice. They are inefficient and burn a reserve for 2 days with only 2-4 block hours flown.

And ForeverFO, we get hotel rooms for them.