ForeverFO

I'm just having an acronym and communication disconnect, then, when you guys talk about this sort of flying.

AA has all-nighter turns, but has stopped doing any trips that has one flying back side of the clock, followed by additional flying the next day.

Trips like a 0600 departure, one leg, rest, then a 2400 departure... guys are refusing them, calling in fatigued, etc.

There has been a HUGE emphasis in recurrent lately on the fatigue policy, and apparently it works well, and is a very low threat affair. The fatigue people genuinely do try to track, recognize, and eliminate, fatigue-producing trips.

EMBFlyer

The ODAN (or "All Nighter") that is being described is essentially a stand-up overnight or Continuous-On-Duty (COD). It's basically the last leg to the outstation at night and the first leg back in the morning, resulting in less than minimum rest. Because you're not getting minimum rest, you never go off duty. They can't touch you when you get back. The ones I've seen in the PHL bid lines seem human compared to my last company. I'm seeing 8+ hours of rest. We didn't have that on normal overnights. At my last company the CODs resulted in maybe 5-6 hours at the hotel, if you were lucky. I did a month of them and swore I'd never do it again. The line I got had a group of 3, then 3 days off, then a group of 4, then 3 days off, then 3 again. I was so tired at the end of a set of them that I wouldn't have known my own name if it wasn't on my ID badge.

Now, I think we still have the work the morning flight out west, day sleep then a red-eye back (I believe the term is "Pink Eye"). I haven't seen too many of those in open time, yet.

ForeverFO

OK, thanks for explaining that. Sounds harsh, I'd almost rather simply work through the night in the traditional manner.