eaglefly

Many bypassed for different reasons, so that is impossible to answer. I think many though might wait to the last possible minute to get the best assessment of the gains or losses in leaving whatever they have going vs. taking X position on the newly merged list, at least if they can. Exactly when that "minute" is depends on the SLI. IF there is any loss of longevity credit for AA furloughees and they are warned of that, some might have to make that decisions sooner then their drop dead date. If not, then they may wait until the very last minute.

eaglefly

I think anyone who thinks this is not possible is fooling themselves. The APA list is a complete mess when it comes to longevity from about 2000 on comprising several thousand pilots. The extended furlough meant many junior came back sooner and furlough dates and return dates are all over the place. Likewise the flows have anywhere between 18 months and 12 years difference between new-hire class assignment from which they were forcibly withheld and actual training class. It's a complicated question and making complicated adjustments for these pilots which may affect pilots differently could mean that for all intents and purposes, they might effectively have different positions on the new list. It all depends on how each side argues that part of the SLI equation and how the arbitrators value each argument and to what degree. Likewise for furloughees on whatever list USAPA presents.

There are no certainties at this point, only more questions.

IMO, I think it again falls to the concept of "carreer expectations". Regardless of whether an AA pilot was furloughed or when he comes back (if he DOES come back), they had career expectation +1 to the pilot immediately junior to them and career expectation -1 to the pilot immediately senior to them. Same goes for Eagle flows and the U list(s) for that matter. Thus, I think the simplest solution is one where each list presented maintain its individual relative seniority to maintain pre-merger career expectation and then concentrate on feathering of the lists and then use fences to clean up any rough edges that result from the feathering. Over complicating this is going to produce more harm then benefit, if you ask me.

70Espada

What if it doesn't go to arbitration?

757HI

Then Bob's your uncle, done.

Get drunk, recover from the hangover of the overindulgence of libations and apply Preparation H as directed.

Then, man up, move on, get to work finishing the JCBA.

eaglefly

From my understanding, the JCBA must be completed before the SLI. APA reiterated again the other day that this could take up to six months due to many issues. Thus, before the JCBA is done and the SLI negotiations (actual, not protocol) can even start, the NMB will already have ruled APA the bargaining rep for all pilots and USAPA vaporizes as a bargaining rep for the East/West pilots, although their merger committee will still exist to theoretically present a list, make their SLI proposal and negotiate.

Most a virtually certain that arbitration will be required as again, the APA even admitted it very likely the DOH concept or equivalent will be their position in addition to the likelihood of persuing a slice and dice on the longevity issue.

70Espada

Yeah, i have an in-law at another legacy and he gave me his two cents. It's a great thing for me long term, but he warned me the APA is going to screw me in the integration. Both of us are not convinvced USAPA will represent the west pilots in good faith.

eaglefly

Just out of curiosity, it sounds as though you're a west pilot, so exactly how do you think APA is going to screw you...........simply by default due to unfair representation by USAPA alone or is there something else that APA would attempt ?

I think those at other carriers have no better insight as to what will eventually occur as the rest of us on the inside.

757HI

The SLI and JCBA processes run simultaneously.

I will read it over again, but a fast glance on the timeline and MOU I don't see where they say anything about the SLI being a "must do first" item.

If anyone has a reference I'd love to see it.

70Espada

I have no reason to think poorly of the APA, it's just the fact that they don't represent me yet. They will and should do what is in the best interest of their members. I look forward to being a member one day.

USAPA is controlled by east pilots and they are a fractured group. There are pilots on the east that want to punish guys like me because of an arbitration that was done by a neutral third party. Some of those pilots don't want to just put me below the furloughed pilots, they want me below the new hires that were hired at OUR airline long after I was. Not all east pilots are out to harm the west. There are some good guys/gals out east and even in the union, but because of USAPA's track record I don't have a lot of faith in a fair and equitable process.

R57 relay

I believe the jcba has to be done before arbitration starts, not negotiations. U think the time for negotiations will be up within a couple of months.

Don't give a negotiated sli much chance.